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    Could I have played this different?

    80+8 satellite to Vienna Mega Series... Was 50ish left with 5 packages and about 500e for 6th...Blinds 50/100, I'm sitting on 3,100....


    I raise to 250 utg+3 with A7 and get 2 callers who are covering me, but only just.... Flop comes 45 6 I check, guy bets the pot, second guy insta shoves...

    I tank call and second guy tank calls. Up against KQ and 88s... Don't get there.... I know I am never folding but I'm thinking did i look weak by not betting the flop/thinking for so long?? I was trying to sucker the 88 guy in and only read I have on either player is 88 guy qualified in the same 11e sattelite as I did and was awful. I'm new to these satellites so i'm still learning and it's frustrating as winner of pot became big chipleader, so would appreciate any opinions. Cheers
    Last edited by Terry Phelan; 26-12-11, 21:32. Reason: Spelling

    #2
    Fold pre to save the guess work now .
    Seeing as you didn't you should be shoving that flop .
    After you have checked it now it's always a fold .
    Last edited by DAMO72; 26-12-11, 21:57.

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      #3
      That's interesting. I wasn't even considering folding... Nut flush draw and opened ended straight draw is still a fold??

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        #4
        Originally posted by Terry Phelan View Post
        That's interesting. I wasn't even considering folding... Nut flush draw and opened ended straight draw is still a fold??
        You should be pushing your draws to induce folds not calling with them when you know your behind and its your tourney on the line .

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          #5
          This is the type of flop that u hope for when you are raising with Ah7h so i'm always cbetting and calling off my stack given that we can take the pot down alot and if not we are always in decent shape if we get action. As it turns out you end up getting two way action when u ck and so you're now getting even better odds so i'd just stick it in and hope for the treble up. I think folding anytime except preflop is criminal if not insane. Folding pre seems standard tho.

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            #6
            Fold pre for sure.
            I'd open shove flop given the nature of this tournament.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Arazi View Post
              Fold pre for sure.
              I'd open shove flop given the nature of this tournament.
              I think open shoving is a bit too much. Pot is 900 and we've 2850 left. Bet/call a shove on the flop

              Comment


                #8
                Ye but it's a sat Tony, I like that move tbh, there's basically 30% of our stack out there to be picked up, we're almost definitely behind and have huge equity if we're called. That's how I'd play it anyway.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                  Ye but it's a sat Tony, I like that move tbh, there's basically 30% of our stack out there to be picked up, we're almost definitely behind and have huge equity if we're called. That's how I'd play it anyway.
                  Would you do the same with AA or 66 though? Any need to balance your range in this situation? On that board, i'd be raise/calling with both so i'd group A7hh with them. I defo see the merits of just shoving tho

                  Worst case scenario is we're up against a flopped straight and a set and we've still almost 30% equity

                  Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

                  325,080 games 0.014 secs 23,220,000 games/sec

                  Board: 4h 5h 6s
                  Dead:

                  equity win tie pots won pots tied
                  Hand 0: 32.746% 29.52% 03.23% 95956 10495.50 { Ah7h }
                  Hand 1: 35.772% 35.37% 00.40% 114995 1293.00 { 66-44 }
                  Hand 2: 31.482% 28.25% 03.23% 91845 10495.50 { 87s, 73s, 32s, 87o, 73o, 32o }

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You shouldn't compound one mistake by making another one
                    I would agree with calling if Terry had of Cbet the flop here , but he didn't so i think a fold here is ok .
                    As played the way i see it he missed the opportunity to make a good play and instead made a bad call .

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Fold pre also.

                      I cant see what shoving the flop achieves to be honest, like we still get called by everything that crushes us but fold out worse draws.. why would we want to do that?
                      We let our opponents play perfectly without giving them the chance to spaz out/make a mistake.

                      Id bet 350 hoping to be able to shove over a raise but when the action goes the way it did i think you gotta fold.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Laois Hammer View Post
                        Fold pre also.

                        I cant see what shoving the flop achieves to be honest, like we still get called by everything that crushes us but fold out worse draws.. why would we want to do that?
                        We let our opponents play perfectly without giving them the chance to spaz out/make a mistake.

                        Id bet 350 hoping to be able to shove over a raise but when the action goes the way it did i think you gotta fold.
                        Nothing crushes us except 78, which we still have decent equity against. I think we'd be folding out one pair and draw hands. In the hand in question there's probably more chance that the KQhh calls than the 88 hand. Alot of people holding KQhh here will think they have 14/15 outs here against the openshove. CR looks drawy, openshove looks much more like a medium OP to me and in Sats like this bloodless victories are always a good result when we hold Ace high IMO

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                          Alot of people holding KQhh here will think they have 14/15 outs here against the openshove.
                          I doubt this because if you shove your hand is so face up as the NFD imo. You are more likely to get action from worse draws if you cbet as normal.

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                            #14
                            Fold pre. I deffo cbet that flop looking to get the loots in. How the KQ called is bad.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ikilldurrr1 View Post
                              I doubt this because if you shove your hand is so face up as the NFD imo. You are more likely to get action from worse draws if you cbet as normal.
                              It's highly likely that there are no lower flush draws out there so regardless of anything taking this pot down now with A high has to be a result given the nature of the tournament.
                              If you think an openshove is face up as the Nfd then my reasoning is flawed, I think open shove in this instance could mean a multitude of hands.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Cheers for all the replies... Should have folded pre, but was a sick flop and think the money was going in one way or another... Just to clarify the 88 guy bet just under the pot, kq shoved, i shoved and 88 guy called it off which i think is a horrible call.... 88 guy ended up shipping a ticket thanks to calling all in on the ft against the chipleader with j10 and getting there, even though he was 4th in chips and could pretty much have folded to a ticket!!!

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                  Fold pre for sure.
                                  I'd open shove flop given the nature of this tournament.
                                  I like folding pre, but open shoving flop is really bad in my opinion.

                                  It has to be a reship as played too.
                                  Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Explain really bad please. I think it's unorthodox but can't see any argument for it being really bad.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                      It's highly likely that there are no lower flush draws out there so regardless of anything taking this pot down now with A high has to be a result given the nature of the tournament.
                                      If you think an openshove is face up as the Nfd then my reasoning is flawed, I think open shove in this instance could mean a multitude of hands.
                                      what multitude of hands ship for over 3 x the pot?
                                      c bet get it in for me.
                                      https://twitter.com/#!/PadraigONeill89

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by anymorejokes View Post
                                        what multitude of hands ship for over 3 x the pot?
                                        c bet get it in for me.
                                        It completely depends who you are doesn't it? Would you call here second to act with 88? I might jam quite a few hands here playing this stack, cbetting to jam over a raise should have no fold equity and like I said we don't really care if we get called anyway but would prefer folds by all except inferior bare draws.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                          It completely depends who you are doesn't it? Would you call here second to act with 88? I might jam quite a few hands here playing this stack, cbetting to jam over a raise should have no fold equity and like I said we don't really care if we get called anyway but would prefer folds by all except inferior bare draws.
                                          The most likely way you get action from inferior draws is by them raising your cbet.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Yep I know but that's all we're giving up on, on the other hand we fold out tonnes of hands we're 50:50 against. In normal circumstances it's likely this flop should have hit part of the callers range, we cbet 350, get called once, don't improve, perhaps bet 650 and get shoved on...whoops
                                            Obviously playing orthodox and trying to get it in over a bet whilst retaining some FE is fine but I think shoving has merits too and if u get called and win it makes ur image that of one fucking dangerous individual. Ps I've seen u play this hand like this more than once down thru the years.

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                                              #23
                                              People are more likely to call these days if you overbet shove this flop than they are to shove on you if you bet flop and turn. Also about having seen me play hands like this in the past, I've played some horrific hands in the past and will play plenty more im sure im just saying i think its better to cbet than shove
                                              Last edited by AKQJ10; 27-12-11, 20:04.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                                It completely depends who you are doesn't it? Would you call here second to act with 88? I might jam quite a few hands here playing this stack, cbetting to jam over a raise should have no fold equity and like I said we don't really care if we get called anyway but would prefer folds by all except inferior bare draws.
                                                so are you shoving a set/straight/overpair in this spot?

                                                c bet allows worse hands to raise or call and also hands that call flop then fold to turn bet.
                                                https://twitter.com/#!/PadraigONeill89

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by anymorejokes View Post
                                                  so are you shoving a set/straight/overpair in this spot?

                                                  c bet allows worse hands to raise or call and also hands that call flop then fold to turn bet.
                                                  Never shoving a straight obviously as the preflop raiser but OP/FDs/combo draws/ pair and draws could all be shoves along with 2 pair hands.
                                                  Ps there are very few weaker hands that will carry on against us. I think u have to remember that we have less than 30BBs and hold Ace high

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Arazi View Post
                                                    Never shoving a straight obviously as the preflop raiser but OP/FDs/combo draws/ pair and draws could all be shoves along with 2 pair hands.
                                                    Ps there are very few weaker hands that will carry on against us. I think u have to remember that we have less than 30BBs and hold Ace high
                                                    ace high with nut flush and straight draws yes. I'd never ship ere and don't think its a good play.c bet over shipping.
                                                    https://twitter.com/#!/PadraigONeill89

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