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    IPPF, what happens next?

    Blinds 500/100, button raises to 2200 and get a call from the big blind. Button then laughs and asks the dealer for his 2nd card (obv he is last to be dealt and she had stopped 1 short). What happens next?

    #2
    Button is a clown. His hand is dead. I probably give him back his 2200 but the BB takes the SB and antes

    edit - although folds aren't considered significant action, i would have given him his 2nd card if action had folded to him and he asked for his card before he raises. The fact he raised, i'd rule his hand dead

    Comment


      #3
      Keep playing. Try to make the best 5 card hand he can.

      I read on Hendon mob once that a TD would let a player with no cards play the board at showdown, in this case the Button actually has a shot of taking it down before river!
      ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

      Comment


        #4
        Whats wrong with dealing the button his card now?

        Button is a clown btw.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by 8611 View Post
          Whats wrong with dealing the button his card now?

          Button is a clown btw.
          He tried to be smart and take the hand down pre and then no doubt wave his one card in the air and say he won a hand with only 1 card etc. Once he gets called, he chickens out. It gets complicated if his hand isn't ruled dead. What if the BB raised allin? What would the rule be if the button had 3 cards? I'd just rule his hand dead as he acted with an incomplete hand and then called attention to it

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
            Button is a clown. His hand is dead. I probably give him back his 2200 but the BB takes the SB and antes

            edit - although folds aren't considered significant action, i would have given him his 2nd card if action had folded to him and he asked for his card before he raises. The fact he raised, i'd rule his hand dead
            I consider the fold of the SB and the call of the BB significant action.
            ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Micknail View Post
              I consider the fold of the SB and the call of the BB significant action.
              Re-read FD's post, that's not what he said.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                Re-read FD's post, that's not what he said.
                Re-read my posts.
                He is saying the hand is dead and somehow he gets 2200 returned.
                I am saying the hand continues as there has been significant action.
                ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

                Comment


                  #9
                  The buttons hand isnt dead, he just gets his card and action continues as normal. imo
                  Last edited by Lauralashes; 22-01-12, 03:34.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    hand is dead. button is acting the clown so his hand is dead. I remember reading a rule where the example was if a player played the hand blind, and at showdown had a joker (obv in a game that didn't use jokers), his hand was dead as it was his responsibility to look at his hand and make sure his cards weren't irregular. A guy acting with one card should have his hand declared dead.

                    Tbh I have no real sympathy here. Some cases you can give the guy his raise back and BB takes rest of the pot, but button was obviously trying to smart here so has no one to blame. His loses the full pot including his raise.


                    If button raised and got all folds and then declared he had only card, I'd give him the pot but give him a warning.
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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Jam-Fly View Post
                      hand is dead. button is acting the clown so his hand is dead. I remember reading a rule where the example was if a player played the hand blind, and at showdown had a joker (obv in a game that didn't use jokers), his hand was dead as it was his responsibility to look at his hand and make sure his cards weren't irregular. A guy acting with one card should have his hand declared dead.

                      Tbh I have no real sympathy here. Some cases you can give the guy his raise back and BB takes rest of the pot, but button was obviously trying to smart here so has no one to blame. His loses the full pot including his raise.


                      If button raised and got all folds and then declared he had only card, I'd give him the pot but give him a warning.
                      I do agree that the button should not get his raise back.
                      Don't agree that his hand is dead tho.
                      If i was utg while cards were being dealt, get an ace my first card, do I have to wait for my 2nd card to act?
                      ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Micknail View Post
                        I do agree that the button should not get his raise back.
                        Don't agree that his hand is dead tho.
                        If i was utg while cards were being dealt, get an ace my first card, do I have to wait for my 2nd card to act?
                        no you don't, but that is slightly different, that's effectively raising blind. like from my example, if your second card happens to be a joker, your hand is dead.

                        It's such a weird situation and one that should never really occur. The button is acting the maggot imo and therefore should have to live with the consequences. most grey areas come from genuine, honest mistakes, this was not the case here so I have no qualms about 'the interest of fairness' or any of that, guy knowingly raised with one card, hand is dead. If you allow him to play with one card, how do you deal? do you burn two cards since the top card should already be in play?

                        I can see a case being made for several courses of action but I think this is just one of those cases where the player should be punished. If the player on the button purposefully mucked one card, would he be allowed to play?
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                          #13
                          http://www.thehendonmob.com/tourname...ard_omaha.html
                          Quite similar.
                          So is the discussion lol.
                          ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Meh, he's the button, there should be no ambiguity about it being his card.

                            I don't think someone's hand should be ruled dead just because you think he's having fun. At the very least he should be able to continue with one card, fairly sure that's within the rules.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Micknail View Post
                              http://www.thehendonmob.com/tourname...ard_omaha.html
                              Quite similar.
                              So is the discussion lol.


                              "Another thing to consider is that if the player with three cards knows he has three cards and that he will get a refund if he raises and then later announces that he only has three cards he could use this as an angle and take it as a free-roll."

                              I think this has to be considered also, and for me is enough of a reason to rule the hand dead
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                                #16
                                common sense is give him the last card

                                By ruling id imagine he plays on with 1, 2 forms of action have taken place. Doubt his hand would be dead here (could claim he raised button blind, unaware he had 1 card etc)
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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Micknail View Post
                                  I consider the fold of the SB and the call of the BB significant action.
                                  imo, 'significant action' in this case would be if the flop had been dealt before he declared he had only one card. in that case, hand is dead, but if his card is just sitting on top of t he deck, then give him his card. its there, he just hasnt looked at it. give card, play on.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    BB has flat called a raise. Sb has folded to a raise.
                                    Imo, that's significant action.
                                    ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Give him his last card (assuming there is no doubt as to which card he gets). Hand plays normally from here. A warning to issue after the hand is over...

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by markc View Post
                                        Give him his last card (assuming there is no doubt as to which card he gets). Hand plays normally from here. A warning to issue after the hand is over...
                                        a warning to who? the dealer for not doing his/her job correctly ??

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Jam-Fly View Post
                                          hand is dead. button is acting the clown so his hand is dead. I remember reading a rule where the example was if a player played the hand blind, and at showdown had a joker (obv in a game that didn't use jokers), his hand was dead as it was his responsibility to look at his hand and make sure his cards weren't irregular. A guy acting with one card should have his hand declared dead.

                                          Tbh I have no real sympathy here. Some cases you can give the guy his raise back and BB takes rest of the pot, but button was obviously trying to smart here so has no one to blame. His loses the full pot including his raise.


                                          If button raised and got all folds and then declared he had only card, I'd give him the pot but give him a warning.
                                          A joker?? r u for real? wat about a player acting 'blind' , as in playing w/o looking at cards. r u saying that is illegal in the game?

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by EnzoScifo View Post
                                            Blinds 500/100, button raises to 2200 and get a call from the big blind. Button then laughs and asks the dealer for his 2nd card (obv he is last to be dealt and she had stopped 1 short). What happens next?
                                            What actually happened was

                                            Button asks for his card.
                                            Dealer laughs and gives it to him with no problem.
                                            Big Blind never even considers asking for a ruling but he did win considerably more on betting flop and turn.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by rachellen View Post
                                              A joker?? r u for real? wat about a player acting 'blind' , as in playing w/o looking at cards. r u saying that is illegal in the game?
                                              I'm saying that if a player acts blind he assumes the possibility of his hand being dead should he have an irregular hand (e.g. a joker, 3 cards, 1 card, a pokemon card etc.).

                                              If it folds to the button, he looks down and realises he only has one card, I'd allow him to be given his final card. However, since he acts, this changes the situation dramatically. He has acted knowing he has an irregular hand.
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                                                #24
                                                Button shouldn't have been a pussy IMO and played the hand with 1 card like a boss

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by ghostface ste View Post
                                                  Button shouldn't have been a pussy IMO and played the hand with 1 card like a boss
                                                  Stu, Pussy below , you wanna tell him..

                                                  Mark Buckley

                                                  [/QUOTE]

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by EnzoScifo View Post
                                                    Stu, Pussy below , you wanna tell him..
                                                    lol I would defo expected Mark to play on with 1 card

                                                    Would expect player to just get card and play on as normal, no need for all the fuss. Have seen the CLAMPER do this in a tournament too

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                      Button is a clown. His hand is dead. I probably give him back his 2200 but the BB takes the SB and antes

                                                      edit - although folds aren't considered significant action, i would have given him his 2nd card if action had folded to him and he asked for his card before he raises. The fact he raised, i'd rule his hand dead
                                                      Originally posted by Micknail View Post
                                                      I consider the fold of the SB and the call of the BB significant action.
                                                      You'r contradicting Flushdraw for something he didn't say, how can you not see this?

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                        He tried to be smart and take the hand down pre and then no doubt wave his one card in the air and say he won a hand with only 1 card etc. Once he gets called, he chickens out. It gets complicated if his hand isn't ruled dead. What if the BB raised allin? What would the rule be if the button had 3 cards? I'd just rule his hand dead as he acted with an incomplete hand and then called attention to it
                                                        Originally posted by Jam-Fly View Post
                                                        hand is dead. button is acting the clown so his hand is dead. I remember reading a rule where the example was if a player played the hand blind, and at showdown had a joker (obv in a game that didn't use jokers), his hand was dead as it was his responsibility to look at his hand and make sure his cards weren't irregular. A guy acting with one card should have his hand declared dead.

                                                        Tbh I have no real sympathy here. Some cases you can give the guy his raise back and BB takes rest of the pot, but button was obviously trying to smart here so has no one to blame. His loses the full pot including his raise.


                                                        If button raised and got all folds and then declared he had only card, I'd give him the pot but give him a warning.
                                                        LOL @ this from two lads trying to pretend that they never raised without looking at their cards

                                                        Although now that we know who villain is there is close to 0% chance he wasn't just being a smart arse. Still doesn't effect the fact that as he is the button his card is at the top of the deck and should be given to him.

                                                        It would only get complicated if the fact he has only one card is not noticed until after flop is dealt. Then I guess we just carry on with him playing one card.
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                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Micknail View Post
                                                          BB has flat called a raise. Sb has folded to a raise.
                                                          Imo, that's significant action.
                                                          Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                                                          You'r contradicting Flushdraw for something he didn't say, how can you not see this?
                                                          Yeah think you're missing the point a little Micknail. The significant action only happened after the player with one card acted, so it's null and void in this situation.

                                                          Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
                                                          LOL @ this from two lads trying to pretend that they never raised without looking at their cards

                                                          Although now that we know who villain is there is close to 0% chance he wasn't just being a smart arse. Still doesn't effect the fact that as he is the button his card is at the top of the deck and should be given to him.

                                                          It would only get complicated if the fact he has only one card is not noticed until after flop is dealt. Then I guess we just carry on with him playing one card.
                                                          Yeah i've raised many times without looking at my cards, but if i ever noticed that i only had one card, i'd keep it to myself and not ask for my 2nd card at any stage. The reason i'd rule his hand dead is because where do we draw the line?

                                                          What if the player never looks at his hand until it gets to him and by that stage, UTG had raised, and got flatted in 2 places. Should the button still get his 2nd card? What if he decided to call blind and only noticed after the flop was dealt that he only had one card. In the example, what if the dealer was quick and dealt the turn before Mark called for his 2nd card. There has to be a limit somewhere and imo, the best all around rule is that if the player has acted before confirming that he has 2 cards, then his hand should be ruled dead.

                                                          I'm not sure i like the idea of being allowed to play on with 1 card, because in 99% of places you need to show 2 cards to claim the pot. There's no doubting at all that the top card on deck is his and that the dealer stopped one card short but the player should have been paying attention and noticed it straight away imo

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                                                            #30
                                                            I'll tell ya what, never mind about any ruling I'd have loved nothing more than to have been in the blinds and spotted what was going on... Awlll Eeeeenn
                                                            Turning millions into thousands

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                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                              Yeah think you're missing the point a little Micknail. The significant action only happened after the player with one card acted, so it's null and void in this situation.



                                                              Yeah i've raised many times without looking at my cards, but if i ever noticed that i only had one card, i'd keep it to myself and not ask for my 2nd card at any stage. The reason i'd rule his hand dead is because where do we draw the line?

                                                              What if the player never looks at his hand until it gets to him and by that stage, UTG had raised, and got flatted in 2 places. Should the button still get his 2nd card? What if he decided to call blind and only noticed after the flop was dealt that he only had one card. In the example, what if the dealer was quick and dealt the turn before Mark called for his 2nd card. There has to be a limit somewhere and imo, the best all around rule is that if the player has acted before confirming that he has 2 cards, then his hand should be ruled dead.

                                                              I'm not sure i like the idea of being allowed to play on with 1 card, because in 99% of places you need to show 2 cards to claim the pot. There's no doubting at all that the top card on deck is his and that the dealer stopped one card short but the player should have been paying attention and noticed it straight away imo
                                                              ya I basically agree with this, sure you can justify doing one thing or another but it is a case of where to draw the line. The button had ample time to point out the situation before acting, but he acted knowing he had only one card. Since the button had the control to rectify the situation before it even became a situation, I think there should be no bending of the rules for him, I'd rule his hand dead.
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                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                                                                You'r contradicting Flushdraw for something he didn't say, how can you not see this?
                                                                I am neither disagreeing nor agreeing with Flushdraw, merely adding to his opinion with mine.


                                                                @Jamfly, prove to me how you knew the Button acted knowing he only had one card.

                                                                In terms of tournament poker, I would much prefer the hand to be played out to a conclusion.
                                                                ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  Nobody's made a decent argument for him not to be given the card that's clearly his from the top of the deck besides that he should be punished for being a smartass.

                                                                  Clearly just give him his card.

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                    Nobody's made a decent argument for him not to be given the card that's clearly his from the top of the deck besides that he should be punished for being a smartass.

                                                                    Clearly just give him his card.
                                                                    This.

                                                                    Anyone who thinks otherwise is just being ridiculous, rulings for rulings sake. As a TD I would laugh off any attempt to do otherwise, get a grip lads!

                                                                    Obviously if he waiting until the flop was dealt it would be different.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #35
                                                                      Agree. He obviously gets his second card. What happens if there's a third player involved? Does the button's second card become the burn card, therefore affecting the run out of the board?

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #36
                                                                        disagree. i dont know what the "correct ruling" is but imo he raised knowing he only 1 card & thus he made the choice to play his hand, so I dont c why he doesnt just have to play the hand with one card...

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Kie Diddy View Post
                                                                          disagree. i dont know what the "correct ruling" is but imo he raised knowing he only 1 card & thus he made the choice to play his hand, so I dont c why he doesnt just have to play the hand with one card...
                                                                          because he is entitled to the second?

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