Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Guest]

Hell or high water-what a flick

[hotspur]

(and obviously none of that has been recently)


Pilots annoy me though. Its just not a complicated job, takes only two years of training, and only kids from rich families get to be pilots due to cost of training, yet they have Ruth Coppinger protesting for them to get a pay increase from 140k when they threaten to go on strike. It's the world biggest scam.

As an anaesthetist friend of mine put it to me about why he makes so much money, despite it being a relatively simple job (that you could train a monkey to do according to him) 95% of the time, is that if he makes a mistake you die.

Responsibility is very much factored into salary. I don't want my plane being flown (to whatever extent they do / can fly it) by someone on the same salary as a bus driver. You pay them to be as responsible as they actually are.

[Theresa]

As an anaesthetist friend of mine put it to me about why he makes so much money, despite it being a relatively simple job (that you could train a monkey to do according to him) 95% of the time, is that if he makes a mistake you die.

Responsibility is very much factored into salary. I don't want my plane being flown (to whatever extent they do / can fly it) by someone on the same salary as a bus driver. You pay them to be as responsible as they actually are.

Yeah, exactly. Responsibility and decision making are what the big bucks get paid for.

Was it here or somewhere else I read that "Executives get paid to make 2 or 3 big decisions a year".

[Theresa]

Yeah I downloaded 01/02 version with patch so nee players (Thank you Tal Al!l) and then I bought the new one 2020 again needed help setting it up ( thank you DeadParrot!).

Lol Was that what the hundo was for? you fish

[Theresa]

Also last question, does anyone know if the postgres DB you create with PT4 is yours once you remove PT4?

Do I still own the db and data?

[hotspur]

Yeah I downloaded 01/02 version with patch so nee players (Thank you Tal Al!l) and then I bought the new one 2020 again needed help setting it up ( thank you DeadParrot!).

My first plan on this zombie apoc was to tune into my fear and try and create, write, paint, etc etc etc but I soon realised my mental health would snap so have become full zombie mode 12 hours a day Football Manager. Think I realized I needed to for the moment switch off when I freaked my folks out by stressing the urgency of buying a shotgun off a farmer within the next few days. ( I dont think I'm entirely wrong) but prob wasnt what they needed to hear.

How much is the shotgun going for?

So I'm assuming you mediated down in Dzogchen Beara (well I know you did as I listened to the interview you posted recently). I don't know if you still do, but I have never had a good meditation if I have watched a TV show / been online much etc., and playing a computer game would render meditating painful.

You tune into the mind and find that it is just buzzy and unsettled. I strongly believe that media + a wholesome mind are incompatible. So I'm planning a digital detox starting Monday. More fresh air in nature and meditation.

[Closed_Account]

How much is the shotgun going for?

So I'm assuming you mediated down in Dzogchen Beara (well I know you did as I listened to the interview you posted recently). I don't know if you still do, but I have never had a good meditation if I have watched a TV show / been online much etc., and playing a computer game would render meditating painful.

You tune into the mind and find that it is just buzzy and unsettled. I strongly believe that media + a wholesome mind are incompatible. So I'm planning a digital detox starting Monday. More fresh air in nature and meditation.

I agree totally. For me the two states can not co-exist.
I took a step back from actual meditation as I felt it could become a condition used to elevate you to a different state, even If that state is something not necessarily bad I'd prefer a more constant grounded mellow awareness if that makes any sense. Meditation I found utterly transformative, I just dont know how I feel about it right now. When I play computer games I become a zombie, every creative idea in my mind becomes dullened. I used to think that extended to poker but now I'm not sure it does as the exchange and the frequency of curiosity with other humanoids can be nourishing even within the zero sum of poker.

Sound like a guy who wears loafers with no socks. Vegan drunk music etc.

[Lazare]

How much is the shotgun going for?

So I'm assuming you mediated down in Dzogchen Beara (well I know you did as I listened to the interview you posted recently). I don't know if you still do, but I have never had a good meditation if I have watched a TV show / been online much etc., and playing a computer game would render meditating painful.

You tune into the mind and find that it is just buzzy and unsettled. I strongly believe that media + a wholesome mind are incompatible. So I'm planning a digital detox starting Monday. More fresh air in nature and meditation.

Went running this morning at 6:20am through silent country roads in North Kildare and it was the most peaceful experience I've ever had.

There's something about the world at 6am on weekends that's special and different.
Whether you're at the end of your night or the beginning of your day it's a time that feels positively different to all other.

[LuckyLloyd]

Hell or high water-what a flick

An adult movie. Beautifully shot, layered characters, some great set pieces and lives slap bang in the grey area between right and wrong. Just brilliant.

[LuckyLloyd]

Back in the day what did we say was a good number of hands to know if you are beating or donking at at level?

And what were the stats that mattered?

10k I remember being a good indicator?

VPIP / PFR / 3bet / afrq used to be the main ones. I remember players being described in those terms anyway. I see they track CB and folds to CB stats now. I don’t remember that back in the day.

[Theresa]

10k I remember being a good indicator?

VPIP / PFR / 3bet / afrq used to be the main ones. I remember players being described in those terms anyway. I see they track CB and folds to CB stats now. I don’t remember that back in the day.

How you finding playing again?

[Denny Crane]

^ I think pokerace, the original hud had that, if not the first HM definitely did.

WR and SD would be important too, higher the WR and the lower your SD the less hands you'd need to be confident.

This is worth playing around with:

https://www.primedope.com/poker-variance-calculator/

Poker is old school anyway, short term option trading is where the fun is these days.

[cardshark202]

Also last question, does anyone know if the postgres DB you create with PT4 is yours once you remove PT4?

Do I still own the db and data?

Yeah, well I'm sure you could just copy the DB anyway and then remove PT4.

[Denny Crane]

Good to have some abbreviations back, the old BBV on boards used to be indecipherable for the non-degens.

[Mellor]

so you're saying they have alcohol infused fruit juice with loads of added sugar that isn't at all objectionable upon consumption?

5e
1e for tax
1e profit for aldi
3e left over to ship it from Argentina, bottle it, produce it

1st rule of economics, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

It’s definitely going to be cheap wine. But when Diego was working the vinerows of Mendoza he was probably expecting it to retail slightly higher than that. But when Aldi guarantee a ridiculous volume, that price plummets.
I’d be curious of quality control in Argentina vrs Europe.

[Lao Lao]

What margin do you think supermarkets work on?

How many bottles at a time do you think Aldi/Aldi's suppliers ship?

well i was using round numbers for illustration. Deffo overstated their margin, but cost of shippage is not negligible.

Cheap wine from Oz, Chile & South Africa doesn't generally arrive here in bottles.

It arrives here in flexi tanks, which are essentially giant water balloons, fitted into a container only instead of water, it's full of wine.

Volume wise, you can fit around 2.5 times the product using a flexi tank than if you loaded bottles into a container.

Add to that, you are buying cheap shit, it allows you to price it quite competitively.

There is always exceptions to the rule and Aldi/Lidl are probable the best in sourcing them but generally, anything under a tenner (let alone under a five) is shite.

Mrs Lao Lao's dad, who very much likes his wine, is always on the hunt for a bargain. He regularly drops over a bottle that he picked up for x euro. Where x euro is very cheap. Most of it is shite but every so often he turns up a gem. I'm not talking fine wine but decent, drinkable wine at a cheap price.

I like to call it 'Tuesday wine'

His latest success is Lidl's Fair Trade South African Western Cape Shiraz at €8.99 a bottle.

It won't blow your socks off, but it's grand it you fancy a glass of wine of a Tuesday...

[Theresa]

Yeah, well I'm sure you could just copy the DB anyway and then remove PT4.

Done! lol.

[ComradeCollie]

so you're saying they have alcohol infused fruit juice with loads of added sugar that isn't at all objectionable upon consumption?

5e
1e for tax
1e profit for aldi
3e left over to ship it from Argentina, bottle it, produce it

1st rule of economics, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

It's actually worse than that afaik. A €4 bottle of wine is the absolute minimum that can be charged for a bottle as that's all tax. There's €1 left in our Aldi bottle to be divvied between the producer/transporter/retailer.

It's no fizzy beef wine, but it does the job.

[ComradeCollie]

I remember being surprised that nobody was up in arms over the wine specific bottle tax. Then I realised that winos like me were in a hugh minority. 3 years ago my wine bottle tax was 2 times my property tax, or roughly 3 times the water charge.
I think the intention of the wine charge was to reduce consumption, but for me it just meant more careful purchasing. I'd imagine I'm an outlier in any study of the results though.

[Fullof..It]

This is going to be unbelievably hard on our neighbours.

[Lazare]

Cheap wine from Oz, Chile & South Africa doesn't generally arrive here in bottles.

It arrives here in flexi tanks, which are essentially giant water balloons, fitted into a container only instead of water, it's full of wine.

Volume wise, you can fit around 2.5 times the product using a flexi tank than if you loaded bottles into a container.

Add to that, you are buying cheap shit, it allows you to price it quite competitively.

There is always exceptions to the rule and Aldi/Lidl are probable the best in sourcing them but generally, anything under a tenner (let alone under a five) is shite.

Mrs Lao Lao's dad, who very much likes his wine, is always on the hunt for a bargain. He regularly drops over a bottle that he picked up for x euro. Where x euro is very cheap. Most of it is shite but every so often he turns up a gem. I'm not talking fine wine but decent, drinkable wine at a cheap price.

I like to call it 'Tuesday wine'

His latest success is Lidl's Fair Trade South African Western Cape Shiraz at €8.99 a bottle.

It won't blow your socks off, but it's grand it you fancy a glass of wine of a Tuesday...

Thumbs up to the bit about logistics.

Thumbs down to the bolded bit. Says who? If soneone enjoys a bottle of wine they enjoy a bottle of wine.

90% of wine is Emporors new clothes stuff. Stick a fake €40 tag on an Aldi fiver bottle and you'll be going on about it's notes.

[Solksjaer!]

I folded KK preflop , please discuss .

[Mellor]

I remember being surprised that nobody was up in arms over the wine specific bottle tax. Then I realised that winos like me were in a hugh minority. 3 years ago my wine bottle tax was 2 times my property tax, or roughly 3 times the water charge.
I think the intention of the wine charge was to reduce consumption, but for me it just meant more careful purchasing. I'd imagine I'm an outlier in any study of the results though.

Didn’t realise that. Per bottle seems insane. Especially when a big 15% red is going to be paying the same excise as a bottle of 7% sweet piss.

[White Knight]

This is going to be unbelievably hard on our neighbours.

The week Italy took measures to the realisation of the seriousness the UK had Cheltenham.

[hotspur]

Thumbs up to the bit about logistics.

Thumbs down to the bolded bit. Says who? If soneone enjoys a bottle of wine they enjoy a bottle of wine.

90% of wine is Emporors new clothes stuff. Stick a fake €40 tag on an Aldi fiver bottle and you'll be going on about it's notes.

Leave Lao Lao alone. "Tuesday wine" has started the day off on a great note for me. I also think we should adopt this phrase for all things which aren't great but enough to be getting on with when not fussy.

A Tuesday friend, for example.

[Guest]

(and obviously none of that has been recently)


Pilots annoy me though. Its just not a complicated job, takes only two years of training, and only kids from rich families get to be pilots due to cost of training, yet they have Ruth Coppinger protesting for them to get a pay increase from 140k when they threaten to go on strike. It's the world biggest scam.

I explained why all of this was wrong the last time you posted it. Glad to see you took in board!

[LuckyLloyd]

How you finding playing again?

I’m shite, constantly uncertain and unable to manage more than 3 tables!

[Strewelpeter]

Hell or high water-what a flick

An adult movie. Beautifully shot, layered characters, some great set pieces and lives slap bang in the grey area between right and wrong. Just brilliant.

McKenzies's prison movie Starred Up is good as well.

Did anyone watch Outlaw King his Robert the Bruce film yet?

[Guest]

The week Italy took measures to the realisation of the seriousness the UK had Cheltenham.

[Mellor]

“A second wave could be lethal, so let’s all get it now”
What the actual fuck.

[Ed]

McKenzies's prison movie Starred Up is good as well.

Did anyone watch Outlaw King his Robert the Bruce film yet?

I watched it when it came out. Was fine, don't think anyone would regret watching it but not necessarily one to move to the top of a watch list

[Ed]

Really liked hell or high water. Guy who wrote it wrote sicario and Wind River too

[hotspur]

I watched it when it came out. Was fine, don't think anyone would regret watching it but not necessarily one to move to the top of a watch list

So would you say it was a ...Tuesday movie?

[Ed]

So would you say it was a ...Tuesday movie?

Yes, yes I would.

Outlaw King is a Tuesday movie

[Guest]

Just in case anyone is interested, here is the number of cases plotted against days since the country reached 100 for (what I deem to be) interesting countires, with apologies for the shit presentation! Denmark have tested similar people to us, around 10k.

[Hectorjelly]

Why do you say that?



Fire away with the articles..

It would be a waste of time, his failings on this subject are so well documented now over multiple news sources that if you aren't aware of it, you must only get your news from some pretty out there sources. Unfortunately, this is one crisis that will have definite results. Look back in 3months and compare the numbers from the US to countries that didn't have a self-obsessed moron in charge.

[Denny Crane]

The real counterfactual is how a different leader would have reacted. The Democrat front runner mocked Trump for his early attempts at containment.

Trump declared it an emergency, and attempted to contain it early. His detractors criticised this. You hardly think the US would be in better shape if Trump hadn't shut off cornovirus related travel nearly two months ago?

It's mind boggling that the narrative is that he didn't take it seriously when he was ahead of the WHO. He declared it an emergency before most people here had even heard of it.

[eoghan104]

1st

[hotspur]

1st

And how are you feeling now?

[Denny Crane]

It would be a waste of time, his failings on this subject are so well documented now over multiple news sources that if you aren't aware of it, you must only get your news from some pretty out there sources. Unfortunately, this is one crisis that will have definite results. Look back in 3months and compare the numbers from the US to countries that didn't have a self-obsessed moron in charge.

Here's the Guardian trying to warp reality yesterday.

Facts: Trump declared it an emergency in January. He tried to contain it in January. He was mocked for this. But according to the Guardian:

At the beginning of March, liberal criticisms of Trump’s inability to see a national emergency when it was staring him in the face were “just another attempt to impeach the president”,

It's literally the complete opposite of what happened. Trump saw it before his opponents.

It's so funny.

[Flushdraw]

Back in the day what did we say was a good number of hands to know if you are beating or donking at at level?

And what were the stats that mattered?

10k I remember being a good indicator?

10k is just a few long sessions, so more like 50k hands. 10k hands would be fine to know if you're getting completely destroyed or not though.

VPIP / PFR / 3bet / afrq used to be the main ones. I remember players being described in those terms anyway. I see they track CB and folds to CB stats now. I don’t remember that back in the day.

They've always tracked CB etc. I've had them on HEM since Day 1. My general HUD set is:

VPIP/PFR/3b/Foldto3b/Steal/FoldtoSteal
FlopCB/TurnCB/FoldtoFCB/RaiseFirstIn
FopAgg/TurnAgg/RiverAgg/Blinds/Hands

If playing tournament poker, the game keeps changing with GTO and solvers and you don't know what you're supposed to be doing half the time. Some of the changes from a few years ago is that it's fine to defend the BB a lot more, even with a 10bb stack and you see lots of 2x pot river bets and light calls.

[Flushdraw]

Yeah I downloaded 01/02 version with patch so nee players (Thank you Tal Al!l) and then I bought the new one 2020 again needed help setting it up ( thank you DeadParrot!).

Rolled out a game of Football Manager 1982 on the Spectrum yesterday just for nosalgia value. A little less indepth than football manager of nowadays

Also managed a 52 break on Steve Davis snooker, and had a spin on Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy!

[eoghan104]

And how are you feeling now?

I feel great. Just a small bit of a cough but nothing to write home about. My wife has had no symptoms so I think we are all good. I've been very lucky.

[ComradeCollie]

Rolled out a game of Football Manager 1982 on the Spectrum yesterday just for nosalgia value. A little less indepth than football manager of nowadays

Also managed a 52 break on Steve Davis snooker, and had a spin on Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy!

An actual speccy or an emulator?

[DeadParrot]

1st

#pray4eoghan

[Flushdraw]

He ended up just short of down a million from this point. He then took a break of a couple of weeks. I forget the number but he was paying either 8k or 4k in fines for everyday the break continued. He said he was seriosuly considering quiting and paying the buyout. In the end he decided to play on. Won 9/11 sessions since the break and is on course now for an epic comeback.

Fines were 3k per day if i remember.

He's now back to only €320k in the hole after a +€140k day yesterday where VeniVidi quit and didn't finish the scheduled session. +~€600k since his break, and on course to be close to breakeen by the end of the challenge.

[Flushdraw]

An actual speccy or an emulator?

I still have the original 48k rubber spectrum in the attic, but this time it was just online!

http://torinak.com/qaop/games

http://www.onsite-computers.co.uk/play-zx-spectrum-games-online.html?fbclid=IwAR3Y-LFm08DvMC6v16LMqSck4FMOUB0B78TIKxP7gJrUjB3T5TEgHfbn2KI

http://www.zxspectrum.xyz/?fbclid=IwAR3fTrRYA-ZKYwHCJJOtzSREURTylRYhQk_E5PBYfdFesDu_x5mMQfFMuI4

[ComradeCollie]

I still have the original 48k rubber spectrum in the attic, but this time it was just online!

Ah I'm well up on it. Still pissed that my kid brother sold ours in 1988 withouit asking me.
Think I've watched all episodes of this nerdy chaps

https://www.youtube.com/user/BuckingTheTrend2008

[Flushdraw]

RunItOnce have made their Essenial package free for a month. Handy for anyone looking to cacth up on some training vids. (No credit card details or anything needed)

The current situation with COVID-19 is affecting people from all walks of life. Here at Run It Once, we’re lucky to be in a position where most of our staff can work remotely and our lives generally aren’t as affected as many others around the world. We understand that for many of you, poker is just a small part of your life and that it is nowhere near as important as what you are dealing with on a day to day basis. That said, we would like to try to contribute by offering you an additional source of entertainment while you’re stuck inside.

For the next 30 days, we are making our Essential plan free for everyone.

Are you a Basic member? Your account has already been upgraded, simply login to start watching.

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Whether it’s watching Run It Once videos or reading a book, let’s all do our part to help combat the spread of this terrible virus.

https://www.runitonce.com/poker-training/videos/

[ComradeCollie]

Hard to see many upsides to the current situation, though I for one am hoping for a return of pubic hair (or natures dental floss, as I like to think of it).

[Hectorjelly]

The real counterfactual is how a different leader would have reacted. The Democrat front runner mocked Trump for his early attempts at containment.

Trump declared it an emergency, and attempted to contain it early. His detractors criticised this. You hardly think the US would be in better shape if Trump hadn't shut off cornovirus related travel nearly two months ago?

It's mind boggling that the narrative is that he didn't take it seriously when he was ahead of the WHO. He declared it an emergency before most people here had even heard of it.

You're living in a different version of reality than the rest of the world.

This is a good breakdown of many of his failings.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/12/814881355/white-house-knew-coronavirus-would-be-a-major-threat-but-response-fell-short

[Dice75]

SPOILER

1. John Sheridan
2. Bayern Munich Allianz arena
3. Inter milan
4. Chris hughton
5. Paul Lambert
6. Fenerbache
7. Howard Kendall
8. Man City
9. Drogheda United
10. Graeme Sharpe

SPOILER

1. Nope
2. Bayern's ground. Olympic stadium or something
3. Wolves, Coventry, then Inter?
4. Hughton?
5. Collins
6. Fenerbahce?
7. No idea
8. Chelsea?
9. Nope
10. Rush?

SPOILER

1. Ronnie Whelan
2. Nobody cares
3.Inter
4.Chris Morris
5.Lambert
6.Ferencvaros
7.Howard Kendall
8.Man City
9.De Rovas
10.Clive Allen

7/3/7

Sheridan, Allianz Arena, Inter, Morris, Lambert, Fenerbache, Kendall, City, Sligo (Rovas!) & Clive Allen.

[Guest]

RunItOnce have made their Essenial package free for a month. Handy for anyone looking to cacth up on some training vids. (No credit card details or anything needed)



https://www.runitonce.com/poker-training/videos/

I built a PC a while back to work on my own project instead of a work laptop with half an eye on playing some poker.
I built it with a much better processor than required to run PIOsolver or GTO+ if needed

What's your understanding of the differences between them or if there is anything else worth looking at?

Also is PT4 still the HUD to use?

Like Lloyd, struggling under the pressure of 3 tables at the minute.

[ComradeCollie]

Think HJ among others would like "Alexei Sayle's Imaginary Sandwich Bar". This is an edited clip, though full episodes are available as podcasts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMCKd4x0CHQ

[Emmet]

I downloaded Football Manager 20 on Thursday night. Just uninstalled it there. Extraordinary how something that's not even actually enjoyable if you really pay attention to your experience can be so addictive. Screw you dopamine.

Couldn't even pretend to myself that I'd be able to download it and behave. Recall doing the "one more game" thing and then realising it was 4:45am and I'd been playing it since 7pm without noticing the passage of time.

Zero sense of achievement when any of it was ever complete, just a pure longing for more.

Real harsh addiction stuff.

[The C Kid]

Trump can both have acted early on the Chinese travel ban and made huge mistakes since. His public speaking and personal statements have clearly had a negative impact on the situation and the way people in the US have acted since.

I think the biggest takeaway for me is that it's nearly a perfect firestorm against Western counties in terms of how to contain it. Western leaders prioritised their standard economic stability and a political keep calm approach, when it now seems pretty clear that the earlier you take severe, drastic, even draconian, action the greater your chance of slowing it is. There's also undoubtedly a superiority complex where we look to China and the East and think look at those crazy bat-eaters dying that will never happen to us.

I think the US situation is further compounded by the absolute state of the Government and political sphere there, the blame is not solely with Trump there but he's the biggest factor.

And then to add more fuel to the fire China's numbers are LOL false (which makes everyone praising their "heroic" efforts a little hard to swallow), and the incompetence of the WHO in terms of their action allowed Western leaders a further opportunity to delay.

Very few major players will come out of this with any enhancement of their reputation, but on the other hand it is a once in a lifetime global pandemic so I have some sympathy for them all.

[rounders123]

Rolled out a game of Football Manager 1982 on the Spectrum yesterday just for nosalgia value. A little less indepth than football manager of nowadays

Also managed a 52 break on Steve Davis snooker, and had a spin on Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy!

Steve Davis was my favorite on the 128k Spectrum. Ton+ breaks commonplace, some real grudge games had with the brothers. If you could bottle those rail shots which were impossibly reliable youd be a top pro in todays live game!. In fact I always think watching live snooker 'Id go for that on Steve Davis Snooker' where it wouldnt even be a consideration for live players!.

EDIT: Absolutely desperate at it nowadays. pts 26, fouls 30!

[Guest]

Trump can both have acted early on the Chinese travel ban and made huge mistakes since. His public speaking and personal statements have clearly had a negative impact on the situation and the way people in the US have acted since.

I think the biggest takeaway for me is that it's nearly a perfect firestorm against Western counties in terms of how to contain it. Western leaders prioritised their standard economic stability and a political keep calm approach, when it now seems pretty clear that the earlier you take severe, drastic, even draconian, action the greater your chance of slowing it is. There's also undoubtedly a superiority complex where we look to China and the East and think look at those crazy bat-eaters dying that will never happen to us.

I think the US situation is further compounded by the absolute state of the Government and political sphere there, the blame is not solely with Trump there but he's the biggest factor.

And then to add more fuel to the fire China's numbers are LOL false (which makes everyone praising their "heroic" efforts a little hard to swallow), and the incompetence of the WHO in terms of their action allowed Western leaders a further opportunity to delay.

Very few major players will come out of this with any enhancement of their reputation, but on the other hand it is a once in a lifetime global pandemic so I have some sympathy for them all.

The highlighted above isn't true to date though.

The most successful country to date especially if you have questions around the Chinese numbers is SK and they haven't applied the same draconian measures as others.

Similar can be said of Hong Kong & Singapore who have also been relatively lenient in their restrictions yet have been successful in containing the outbreak.

The draconian measures are not proving to be successful anywhere outside of China and if you believe their numbers are false then there's little merit in their effectiveness to date.

[Fullof..It]

Wheres the best place to play some Poker now given the (hopefully) new intake of fishys?

[Lao Lao]

Thumbs up to the bit about logistics.



Thumbs down to the bolded bit. Says who? If soneone enjoys a bottle of wine they enjoy a bottle of wine.



90% of wine is Emporors new clothes stuff. Stick a fake €40 tag on an Aldi fiver bottle and you'll be going on about it's notes.

If somebody enjoys a bottle of wine that is under a tenner then so be it, it doesn't affect or bother me.

It also doesn't make my point any less valid.

It's pretty simple. Take the 4.99 euro bottle. At least 4 euro of that goes to the tax man. That leaves 99 cent to be divided up between the following

Wine maker
Wine seller
Transportation costs
Potental middle man. A lot of wines will have an importer who take their cut although some supermarkets can go direct to the vineyard.

For the tiny amount of money the winemaker gets, you can't expect the wine to be of great quality, it's just not feasible.

For a ten euro bottle of wine, the winemaker gets in around one euro, not a lot at all. But you don't have to buy crazy expensive wine at 40 euro or above to get something a bit decent. If you even stretched the 10 euro budget to 15, you would generally get a better quality wine. Why? Because the majority of the extra fiver goes to the winemaker.

This isn't just about wine by the way, it's fairly common that if you pay dirt cheap prices for something, the quality isn't going to be great.