Playing with an equal small and big blind

[Hectorjelly]

I played on a site recently where the small blind is the same size as the big blind, so if its folded to you there is no option to not play the hand. Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on how to play this position, assuming its folded to you. Obviously who is in the big blind is a factor.

[Bubbleking]

interesting - obviously this makes steals far more lucrative so I cant imagine it will be folded to you too often. My initial thoughts would be to play conservative similar to a normal structure and just c/f any hands you would normally open fold from the SB. granted this will cost you 1/2 a BB per round which affects your win rate by 0.25bb if im not mistaken? but this would easily be made up and more by increasing your steal % from later positions so overall it should be + EV for a positionally aware player

[Guest]

I think it changes things a bit. Assuming you were to make it 3x which is still a standard SB open, you'd be risking 2bb to win 2bb meaning that a steal has to work 50% of the time instead of (2.5 to win 1.5) 62.5% of the time on regular sites meaning you should probably be stealing with a much wider range of hands.
Those hands where you do check and the bb checks behind you should probably bet out super often, as I'd imagine that most players aren't going to go after the limped pots enough and will play fairly straightforwardly, folding probably 70% of the time on the flop making a bet fairly profitable in this spot. Obviously you need to maintain balance against opponents who are paying attention.
In terms of defending, you need to be playing 50% of hands in order to avoid your opponent making an immediate profit by opening against you, and GTO play means you should be 3betting 17% and calling 33%. If the SB checks, I'd imagine you should be raising quite often from the bb, risking 2bb to win 2bb when the SB has shown no interest in the pot has to be very profitable. By the same logic, check-3betting from the SB might be something to look into once you develop some meta-game with the regulars.

What site is that has that setup? I've never heard of it! Obv you're not gonna out it here because its probably a fishfest, but tell me on gtalk!

[Hectorjelly]

interesting - obviously this makes steals far more lucrative so I cant imagine it will be folded to you too often. My initial thoughts would be to play conservative similar to a normal structure and just c/f any hands you would normally open fold from the SB. granted this will cost you 1/2 a BB per round which affects your win rate by 0.25bb if im not mistaken? but this would easily be made up and more by increasing your steal % from later positions so overall it should be + EV for a positionally aware player

I don't understand this at all. You think we should check fold the sb because this structure allows a higher steal % . I don't see what the two things have to do with each other.

[Bubbleking]

I don't understand this at all. You think we should check fold the sb because this structure allows a higher steal % . I don't see what the two things have to do with each other.

badly phrased by me they were 2 seperate points as if it was folded to you in the SB I would play similar to a normal structure - but as Zuutroy posted above we probably should be stealing more from the SB

my second point was that any value you give up (-.25bbs win rate) by just c/f the small blind can be made back when you raise from the CO/BTN the next time around

[PokerPiper]

I played on a site recently where the small blind is the same size as the big blind, so if its folded to you there is no option to not play the hand. Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on how to play this position, assuming its folded to you. Obviously who is in the big blind is a factor.

Is this in Cash or SNG/MTT ?

I think it effects the dynamics of an SNG/MTT a lot more than it does cash due to blinds increasing e.t.c.

Never seen it tbh - its a bit of a headwrecker. I guess checking the option is pretty much the same as completing. I think my SB range in this scenario is open for adjustment. Still not sure but very interesting.

[Hectorjelly]

my second point was that any value you give up (-.25bbs win rate) by just c/f the small blind can be made back when you raise from the CO/BTN the next time around

They still have nothing to do with each other. The fact that you can steal more from LP should not in any way influence the decisions you make when its folded to you in the small blind. You want to make the best decisions at all times, not make a sub par decision just because you are getting some extra equity in some other situation.

[Hectorjelly]

Cash games.

[PokerPiper]

They still have nothing to do with each other. The fact that you can steal more from LP should not in any way influence the decisions you make when its folded to you in the small blind. You want to make the best decisions at all times, not make a sub par decision just because you are getting some extra equity in some other situation.

Seems like you already know the answer to your own question - why bother asking for an opinion ?

[sligoboi]

Seems like you already know the answer to your own question - why bother asking for an opinion ?

He asked for opinions on the particular situation..he still hasn't given his opinion on it.

[PokerPiper]

He asked for opinions on the particular situation..he still hasn't given his opinion on it.

True.

[Hectorjelly]

Seems like you already know the answer to your own question - why bother asking for an opinion ?

It seems like you have misunderstood something.

I don't have much of an idea of what to do, I've never thought about it before. I only noticed because I kept finding myself in weird heads up spots out of position with terrible hands, I couldn't understand how I kept misclicking!

[Winning!]

The key factor here is that any range assignment BB makes on our limping range must be made from 100% of starting hands as we are forced to play everything. This means when we limp villain will find it a little more difficult to define our hand, and we can exploit this further by including some high and low-sc's, nutted stuff so that we can l/c with hands that flop well and l/3b a decent balanced amount to discourage BB stealing as wide as he should. Thus we hopefully see cheap flops more often and put BB to tough decisions against a wide range.

When we then steal we could make it more pre to counteract our positional disadvantage and protect our investment, but this will be with a somehwat tighter range since we're limping some of our regular raising range under new conditions. If villain does not adjust correctly he may resteal/defend far too wide expecting us to be similarly wide, and also for a higher price, which we can potentially exploit.

[Mellor]

My initial thoughts would be to play conservative similar to a normal structure and just c/f any hands you would normally open fold from the SB. granted this will cost you 1/2 a BB per round which affects your win rate by 0.25bb if im not mistaken?

You're mistaken.
You are right that it would cost us a .5bb per round, but this isn't .25 of our win rate. WR is per hand, so for a 6 max table, this alone costs us c. 0.04 from our win rate. Not very much.
Plus this is countered by the increased value from button steals, and the hands where be flop big from a force SB (where we would normally fold).

As for HJs question and how to adjust. I'd steal more from CO, Button and SB. I'd be hoping that people don't adjust to this. I think limped hands become more valuable also. 100% ranged hands were we have the potential to flop gin and be total disguised

[colquhom]

Tricky.

You should obviously play more hands from the sb but how you want to break down with those hands into raising, check calling and check raising I don't know. Seems like it might be a situation where you may need to be a little bit more balanced than usual when you check.

Obviously open more from every position that isnt the small blind.