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    Betfair laying

    Ive decided to take a chance with some of my poker bankroll as i have no real time to play poker at the minute. I always felt laying horses is a good way to make money but since i have no knowledge about horses it makes it tough.

    A lad in college tends to know his stuff so ive decided to stake him 50/50. Im starting relatively small with a €300 bankroll which i will increase as it goes on.

    My max liability is €20 in any one race. What would people consider a decent bankroll for this type of venture im pretty sure 15 buyins is not adequate?

    We have had a good start with about a 30% roi in the first week.

    Il update this as it goes along.
    Pm for rakeback deals

    #2
    Fucking priceless!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Arazi View Post
      Fucking priceless!!!
      Well im well aware of the bankroll been to small but i can add pretty much what needs be to it.

      I also understand 5% would be an excellent roi.

      So after ive clarified them two points what else is priceless. I should add im well aware the venture could be a losing one but the guy is pretty good.
      Pm for rakeback deals

      Comment


        #4
        Saying 'laying horses is a good way to make money' is a bit of a fishy statement from someone who should know better! The only 'ways to make money' are to pick out +EV spots and I'd assume that horse racing on Betfair has to be one of the toughest markets to turn a profit one without a ridiculously detailed knowledge of the sport. Think about what you're saying...you're trying to make a profit in something where you've no knowledge against professionals and expert traders.

        Comment


          #5
          Good luck, you'll need all of it to beat a 99.5% book with 5% commission.

          Comment


            #6
            Ya fair enough il take the points on board of those that know more. I wont claim to have researched the area in any great detail.
            Pm for rakeback deals

            Comment


              #7
              I believe in you.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by tipp86 View Post
                Ive decided to take a chance with some of my poker bankroll as i have no real time to play poker at the minute. I always felt laying horses is a good way to make money but since i have no knowledge about horses it makes it tough.
                With "no knowledge about horses", you're right, it is "going to make it tough".

                I much prefer sports betting to poker as a means of money-making, but I stay a millionmiles away from horseracing, because I don't have a clue about it.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Bodybuilder View Post
                  With "no knowledge about horses", you're right, it is "going to make it tough".

                  I much prefer sports betting to poker as a means of money-making, but I stay a millionmiles away from horseracing, because I don't have a clue about it.
                  Well my knowledge of horse racing is irrelevant as its not me betting.

                  Anyway i went ahead with this mainly due to having promised the guy who was providing the knowledge.

                  So far 207 bets placed. Betfair doesnt allow me to add up liability on each bet on the spreadsheet. Il have to estimate an average risk of about €18.

                  €3726/202 = 18.44% roi.

                  I have no doubt that this win rate is not attainable but i would like to think a win rate of 2/3 % may be doable. Laugh at me if ye so wish and say variance will kill me ive no doubt ye may be correct but its a lesson il have to learn. All i will say is the lad placing the bets will hardly ever miss a race if its possible and is only laying on races where he is pretty familiar with the horses.
                  Pm for rakeback deals

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by tipp86 View Post
                    Ive decided to take a chance with some of my poker bankroll as i have no real time to play poker at the minute. I always felt laying horses is a good way to make money but since i have no knowledge about horses it makes it tough.

                    A lad in college tends to know his stuff so ive decided to stake him 50/50. Im starting relatively small with a €300 bankroll which i will increase as it goes on.

                    My max liability is €20 in any one race. What would people consider a decent bankroll for this type of venture im pretty sure 15 buyins is not adequate?

                    We have had a good start with about a 30% roi in the first week.

                    Il update this as it goes along.
                    Im not sure which of these made me laugh harder.


                    No offence man but your just burning money here- cash out if you cant play poker- don't just give it away!

                    Edit: I see your going with it anyway- gl you'll need it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by NoRiverRequired View Post
                      Im not sure which of these made me laugh harder.


                      No offence man but your just burning money here- cash out if you cant play poker- don't just give it away!

                      Edit: I see your going with it anyway- gl you'll need it.
                      Im not denying those that have a better knowledge. Since im going ahead with it il post now and again good bad or indifferent.
                      Pm for rakeback deals

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by tipp86 View Post
                        Well my knowledge of horse racing is irrelevant as its not me betting.

                        Anyway i went ahead with this mainly due to having promised the guy who was providing the knowledge.

                        So far 207 bets placed. Betfair doesnt allow me to add up liability on each bet on the spreadsheet. Il have to estimate an average risk of about €18.

                        €3726/202 = 18.44% roi.

                        I have no doubt that this win rate is not attainable but i would like to think a win rate of 2/3 % may be doable. Laugh at me if ye so wish and say variance will kill me ive no doubt ye may be correct but its a lesson il have to learn. All i will say is the lad placing the bets will hardly ever miss a race if its possible and is only laying on races where he is pretty familiar with the horses.
                        But you have attained it the question is can you sustain it ?
                        The answer is of course that you can't.
                        Turning millions into thousands

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Strewelpeter View Post
                          But you have attained it the question is can you sustain it ?
                          The answer is of course that you can't.
                          Is it actually very close to impossible for someone with an excellent knowledge of form/horses to maintain a small roi? 1-2 %?

                          I said originally that we would withdraw and split after we made(if) €200 so realistically the max loss now will be €100 (realistically €200 for me since we are splitting).

                          Edit: Just realised my choice of words above did not make sense. Not sure how i confused attain with sustain.
                          Last edited by tipp86; 09-11-12, 23:39.
                          Pm for rakeback deals

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by tipp86 View Post
                            Is it actually very close to impossible for someone with an excellent knowledge of form/horses to maintain a small roi? 1-2 %?
                            On a 'system' yea if you were working very hard and were properly clued in to all the things you'd need to be aware of then you'd be looking for a much bigger margin.

                            No harm to experiment with it for a couple of hundred quid there are valuable lessons to be learned and that will be a lot less than the price most people myself included paid to learn them

                            Sorry about the pedantry I only realised after that that was what you meant.
                            Turning millions into thousands

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Any updates?
                              Go big or go homeless.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Best of luck with this Enda. Typical of some people on ere to just laugh and not post anything productive. As a poker player you are aware of good bankroll management. Keeping the losses at €20 a bet is a brilliant idea. It takes a lot of discipline but it does work. This time of the year is not the best for laying horses though. Start of jump season and anything can happen. Flat racing during the summer is better as form is more consistent.
                                If you're not in, you can't win

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  You need a bit of depth to your knowledge and the patience of Job to wait for opportunities.
                                  Horse racing is a very varied activity. Each horse has its special talent (or lack of talent.) that will suit one or more of the categories below.

                                  Race categories: flat, steeplechase, hurdles.
                                  Race distances: flat 5 furlongs to 30 furlongs; chase/hurdles 16f to 36f.
                                  Race courses: left-turning; right-turning; straight; figure of eight
                                  Race going: hard, firm, good/firm; good; good/soft; soft; soft/heavy; heavy.
                                  Race grades: claimer; selling; handicaps (0-60 to ??-100), listed, group 3, group 2, group 1.
                                  Rcae draw: the horses start from stalls (flat). Often high or low stall numbers are heavily favoured in a race.
                                  Horse pedigree: you need to know if the parents and grandparents+ of a horse indicate which of the many above distance, going, race grades is likely to suit the horse.

                                  You might be looking to lay horses in an Group 3 straight course race over eight furlongs on good/soft ground with a draw heavily favouring low drawn horses.

                                  The field might feature horses: one might be only suited to 6 furlongs; the next horse 11/12 furlongs; the next wants firm ground; the next soft ground; the next a left-turning course; 0-75 handicap; to be held up off a slow pace; a strong pace; a long lay-off between races.
                                  You probably have to find a horse drawn low that is suited to all the conditions of the race, and the odds offered are worth the risk.
                                  You might need to find a horse that ran well in its previous race without winning in race conditions that did not suit the horse.

                                  Have a look at this site and the info you need on soft ground sires / firm ground sires. You might not use it but it shows the level of work people do.
                                  Using stats to find profitable betting systems when the going is Soft. Do bookies benefit or punters?

                                  Please note that the data ends in 2001 so don't use it blind.

                                  There is no easy money without work. You might say you only need that information if you are backing horses. You need the same research when laying horses.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by minor View Post
                                    Best of luck with this Enda. Typical of some people on ere to just laugh and not post anything productive. As a poker player you are aware of good bankroll management. Keeping the losses at €20 a bet is a brilliant idea. It takes a lot of discipline but it does work. This time of the year is not the best for laying horses though. Start of jump season and anything can happen. Flat racing during the summer is better as form is more consistent.
                                    Some of these people are vastly experienced in sports betting and horses.
                                    They know when something stinks

                                    The man knows poker may not be able or have time to beat the game anymore so gets the hair brained idea if the lad in college knew his stuff why would he need backing?

                                    No lack of encouragement on this site for people with a half decent idea of what they are doing.
                                    See lots of stupid posts blogs about stuff and usually when the posts stop the poster is skint.
                                    You pay commission on winning bets on betfair so your imaginery edge gets hit when u running above expectation.

                                    Posters be doing a diservice to people if they didnt point out when they post a bad idea why it is bad.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Use Betdaq for the lower commission.
                                      Profit before people.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        yeah Id imagine the edge in horses is slim better off looking at obscure markets and hammer them e.g. lower division football games, GAA, athletics etc. Of course a sound knowledge base is essential or you might as well punt it on roulette

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Ya this went wrong as I outlined on the BBV. Total loss of €165 on the project or for me €215. Could be worse I guess I never doubted those that knew but I had committed to give it a go at that stage.
                                          Pm for rakeback deals

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