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Does soft play hurt those not involved?

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    Does soft play hurt those not involved?

    Playing live cash recently two chaps at the table soft played each other on the turn and river as was widely expected by all observant players in the game, this has happened before with these two and I find it pretty disgusting tbh.

    Since then I started thinking and can't really come up with a reason why this is bad for the fair and decent other players in the game. I mean other than if you let this upset you, can anyone give any tangible reason why this behaviour between these two players is a disadvantage to other players in the game?
    "Being wrong is erroneously associated with failure, when, in fact, to be proven wrong should be celebrated, for it elevates someone to a new level of understanding."

    #2
    Well I suppose if one of them is a bad player - you would prefer them to have a big stack - so you can get their chips. So if there is soft play between these two, the bad player doesn't get a chance build his stack at the expense of his mate.

    Also - it's not a team game. It's every man for himself. You are expected to 'bring your A game' and BUST the other players. that's the name of the game - to BUST the other players. Not playing the game hurts those involved.

    I think

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      #3
      It is very unfair on other players in the game and ability is kind of irrelevant.

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        #4
        It's collusion and cheating... So a big no no!!!
        No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity, but I know none, therefore am no beast.

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          #5
          Originally posted by shano1888 View Post
          It is very unfair on other players in the game and ability is kind of irrelevant.
          Why is it unfair?

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            #6
            Originally posted by shano1888 View Post
            It is very unfair on other players in the game .
            How exactly though, we can be enraged at it all we like, and I was, but how does it hurt our expectation in the game?
            "Being wrong is erroneously associated with failure, when, in fact, to be proven wrong should be celebrated, for it elevates someone to a new level of understanding."

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              #7
              Originally posted by TheSnapper View Post
              How exactly though, we can be enraged at it all we like, and I was, but how does it hurt our expectation in the game?
              It hurts our expectation as/ if we are directly affected by it. i.e. if said soft play was to occur on a significant bubble.

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                #8
                It's a cash game
                I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by shano1888 View Post
                  It hurts our expectation as/ if we are directly affected by it. i.e. if said soft play was to occur on a significant bubble.

                  it's clearly stated it's a cash game.

                  Don't see why it should upset any other players, it's similar to running it twice/three times...................in fact it might be helpful to a cash game to keep as many players in as possible, keep the rake low

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                    #10
                    I used the word 'if'

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                      #11
                      I don't see much wrong with it, soft player not building a stack is probably the only issue, but that's fairly minor, you could say the same about running it twice, and nobody has an issue with that.
                      I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by shano1888 View Post
                        I used the word 'if'
                        "If" it were on a bubble it would be a tournament .....................it is illegal to do so in a tournament & is viewed as collusion so your "If" is out of context, doesn't apply

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                          #13
                          [QUOTE=kakak1;698004]"If" it were on a bubble it would be a tournament .....................it is illegal to do so in a tournament & is viewed as collusion so your "If" is out of context, doesn't apply[/QUO

                          Fair enough. What is the conversation about so? heads up in a cash game can they not do whatever they want?

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by TheSnapper View Post
                            Playing live cash recently two chaps at the table soft played each other on the turn and river as was widely expected by all observant players in the game, this has happened before with these two and I find it pretty disgusting tbh.

                            Since then I started thinking and can't really come up with a reason why this is bad for the fair and decent other players in the game. I mean other than if you let this upset you, can anyone give any tangible reason why this behaviour between these two players is a disadvantage to other players in the game?
                            If this occured in the place i think it did then i know two very experienced players that were barred from this place for allegedly commiting this offence.These 2 players travel around louth and dublin playing cash games for the last 5/7 years and have never been accused of this and have great reputation as players.One of these players told me that the guy who runs the place didnt want them there because they are probably the best players in the game and know exactly what rake should be coming out of each pot.The guy who runs the place thought it would be easier to remove these 2 rather than have to explain the massive rake every night.Iam sure OP can confirm if it is same place as i know he knows said players involved.
                            location green and yellow stretford end

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                              #15
                              I don't view it the same as running it twice. OP says they soft played each other on turn and river but how did they get that far? Was there another player(s) in the hand that folded to some action between them and now its heads up they check it down? As far as I'm concerned people playing poker should be playing to win and maximize their expected value. I don't really want to be in a hand where I feel that two guys are going to soft play each other once they get a hand heads up.

                              Just as a for example...years ago, like maybe ten years ago , there were 5 or us who played homegame SnGs once a month or so,( we were all friends). I remember this hand where player A raised, I 3bet and player B cold called. Back to player A who 4bet and I folded. Player B called. It was the first hand of a new SnG and the last one had taken an eternity. Think the flop went check/check. Turn rolled off and they were both sitting with about a psb behind, maybe a little more. Neither had a pair and neither wanted to go bust and have to sit out for maybe an hour. So they agreed to chop. I said fuck that and pointed out I had been squeezed out of the pot for them to soft play each other post flop and chop the pot without even seeing a river. They could see nothing wrong with the way the hand played out. AFAIR they ended up chopping the pot and I was left raging.

                              ^^ obv not exactly the scenario op is pointing out but I think the same thinking applies. The players in the op didn't just magically get to the turn. Other players decisions may have been affected by the knowledge that these guys were happy to get a pot hu and soft play from there. Fwiw I don't think the players in the op were cheating or colluding - i'm 100% the two guys in my story were not trying to cheat

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