Originally posted by imidg
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Strange hand, opinions please?
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Surely the logic of the rule should mean op had all his options returned to him, including checking to make button's all in effective? From lappins description op bet more or less the same time as button shoved out of turn, but slightly after him. If the out of turn guy gets his options back when the action changes, presumably on the assumption that he didn't mean to act out of turn, then surely op should also, as he definitely made his bet without knowing out of turn guy had (I am not using the term villain because of the allegations flying around!).. Op's bet should only take effect once the ruling has been explained to him.
Also, surely there is a big problem with this rule anyway. The guy who was originally to act first will never change his action unless he's bluffing. If he has a value hand he will either check call to make lp's bet effective, or check raise to get more off him. If the guy in lp realizes this he can now play the hand optimally, and still retain the benefit of having acted out of turn. So I'm not sure it really conveys a benefit on the guy who was first to act, unless they get into a levelling war.
Not sure if there is a better ruling tbh but just think the logic behind this one might be bad.
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I acted on the river because I thought I saw Eoin tap the table to check as he looked down.
I cant honestly say i was 100% sure he had checked but rashly put my chips into the middle.
It was not a premeditated move or angle-shoot. It happened in a split second.
As for the ruling, initially the dealer gave me my options back so i chose to take my chips back & fold. The floor was then called & ruled that Eoin got the pot so I left only to be called back from outside to be given back my chips. I did say that the ruling seemed to penalise Eoin for doing nothing wrong.
It did not cost you the tournament Eoin as after the pot you had 80k+ chips at the 200/400 level. What cost you a deep run was a hand vs Mr. Lappin (welcome to IPB!) about 30mins later & your subsequent play in the 3 hands immediately after that.
Also, I did reply to your FB messages despite not liking the tone of them & especially questioning JP's integrity in them which was way out of line.
You have said if I dont refund you your €250 buyin you will slate me on IPB/FB/2+2 and i will not be doing that, so fire away. I have more important things to worry about in life.
The last line of the message i sent you on FB still stands in that i will buy you a pint next time I see you.
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Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
Also, I did reply to your FB messages despite not liking the tone of them & especially questioning JP's integrity in them which was way out of line.
You have said if I dont refund you your €250 buyin you will slate me on IPB/FB/2+2 and i will not be doing that, so fire away. I have more important things to worry about in life.
The last line of the message i sent you on FB still stands in that i will buy you a pint next time I see you.
You haven't posted in a while and the minute you come back you threaten a seasoned poster and throw advice given to you by pro poker player back in his face. Get a grip of yourselfRedbet at the Dublin Poker Invasion FTW
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostI acted on the river because I thought I saw Eoin tap the table to check as he looked down.
I cant honestly say i was 100% sure he had checked but rashly put my chips into the middle.
It was not a premeditated move or angle-shoot. It happened in a split second...
...The last line of the message i sent you on FB still stands in that i will buy you a pint next time I see you.My website and Blog: dklappin.com
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostYou have said if I dont refund you your €250 buyin you will slate me on IPB/FB/2+2 and i will not be doing that, so fire away. I have more important things to worry about in life.
Ciaran is one of the most honest and sound lads you could meet at the tables FWIW.
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Originally posted by starrbar View PostI dont know Ciaran aswell as u but the oot bet ruined my game an set me on tilt, costing me any chance of holding the chip lead to a win so surely u can see why I wasnt happy, I duno maybe u cant but thats how I feel about it anyway.
Eoin ended this hand with more chips than when it begun. An esteemed TD made the correct ruling according to the rules of that particular tournament. (Whether you like the rule or not - which I don't - is utterly irrelevant).
Eoin, you were visibly calm and composed throughout the debate over what happened and after the outcome. You had 80K+ and were probably top3 in chips (admittedly very early in). You had played aggressively to get those chips, gotten lucky for a very big pot when he had 16% and were enjoying the role of table captain, raising and re-raising often. It is totally disingenuous to say that you were tilted by what took place in this moment and it is the effect of that decision that put you on tilt. Nothing about your style deviated until a mis-step by you in a hand versus me, provoking a war of words between us. From that moment on (and at this point, you still had 40-50K, way above the average), you were visibly disgruntled. You made a 60BB squeeze-play from the CO after UTG+1 opened and I flatted UTG+2 and when the short-stacked BB woke up with 1010 (the same villain as in your other story), you berated him for making a pretty standard call given the situation with 20BB stack. The 1010 held versus your 56o, leaving you with around 40BBs (still an average stack). You open shoved all-in for the next three hands, showing 34o and 9 high face-up and then were called the third time by AK (again same villain) when you had A6.
This blow-up on your part had absolutely nothing to do with JP's ruling. I am not certain what your motives are any more. The narrative you have concocted here, at best, stirs up some public debate and shines a light on the existence of a controversial rule or, at worst, defames another player for the purpose of shaking him down for the cost of your buy-in. I sincerely hope the former is true but in either case, the story you are presenting is not how it happened.Last edited by LAPPIN; 20-11-11, 14:04.My website and Blog: dklappin.com
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Originally posted by The Aul Switcharoo View PostIf this did happen, and it can be proved, this is way out of line and you would want to cop onto yourself Eoin. In fairness did you really think he would care if a young fella came on here labeling him an angle-shooter.
You haven't posted in a while and the minute you come back you threaten a seasoned poster and throw advice given to you by pro poker player back in his face. Get a grip of yourself
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Originally posted by LAPPIN View PostThis is pure nonsense.
Eoin ended this hand with more chips than when it begun. An esteemed TD made the correct ruling according to the rules of that particular tournament. (Whether you like the rule or not - which I don't - is utterly irrelevant).
Eoin, you were visibly calm and composed throughout the debate over what happened and after the outcome. You had 80K+ and were probably top3 in chips (admittedly very early in). You had played aggressively to get those chips, gotten lucky for a very big pot when he had 16% and were enjoying the role of table captain, raising and re-raising often. It is totally disingenuous to say that you were tilted by what took place in this moment and it is the effect of that decision that put you on tilt. Nothing about your style deviated until a mis-step by you in a hand versus me, provoking a war of words between us. From that moment on (and at this point, you still had 40-50K, way above the average), you were visibly disgruntled. You made a 60BB squeeze-play from the CO after UTG+1 opened and I flatted UTG+2 and when the short-stacked BB woke up with 1010 (the same villain as in your other story), you berated him for making a pretty standard call given the situation with 20BB stack. The 1010 held versus your 56o, leaving you with around 40BBs (still an average stack). You open shoved all-in for the next three hands, showing 34o and 9 high face-up and then were called the third time by AK (again same villain) when you had A6.
This blow-up on your part had absolutely nothing to do with JP's ruling. I am not certain what your motives are any more. The narrative you have concocted here, at best, stirs up some public debate and shines a light on the existence of a controversial rule or, at worst, defames another player for the purpose of shaking him down for the cost of your buy-in. I sincerely hope the former is true but in either case, the story you are presenting is not how it happened.
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Originally posted by starrbar View PostNo I didnt come on labeling anybody, nor did I mention who villan was! Some1 else done that and some1 else said which event it was. I want to be very clear on that. It was never my intension for people who already didnt know to find out who villan was or which event it was!!! The reason I posted the thread was to get people's opinions on the rule to think if ye thinks its fair and to give an axample as a lot people I know disagree and dont like the rule in a vacuum that it)Redbet at the Dublin Poker Invasion FTW
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Originally posted by starrbar View PostMy above post is all iv left to say on it, ipb'rs decided to come and give names an events not me! And Im always quiet calm and focused at the table I can say for a fact it affected my game, I played a far more aggressive high variance style after this hand, due to my own choice yes but the previos hand promted it, thats the truth weather people choose believe it or it doesnt really bother me! And the big hand where I got very lucky saposidly was 100% standard JJvKK blind on blind!
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Originally posted by ferg View PostWhatever about the ruling, It sems to me that someone might have a bit to learn about tilt control....you might find that often the best way to deal with incidents such as this is to accept it, learn from it....and move on....otherwise you'll find it affecting you more that it ever shouldHer sky-ness
© 5starpool
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Originally posted by smoothcall View Postlol stuff here, just a point on that rulling JP (already mentioned by 86111)
OK sir, this player has moved all in out of turn, you may check and his bet stands and you can call it off ooorrrr you can bluff sorry I mean bet.....
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Originally posted by 8611 View PostSurely the logic of the rule should mean op had all his options returned to him, including checking to make button's all in effective? From lappins description op bet more or less the same time as button shoved out of turn, but slightly after him. If the out of turn guy gets his options back when the action changes, presumably on the assumption that he didn't mean to act out of turn, then surely op should also, as he definitely made his bet without knowing out of turn guy had (I am not using the term villain because of the allegations flying around!).. Op's bet should only take effect once the ruling has been explained to him.
Also, surely there is a big problem with this rule anyway. The guy who was originally to act first will never change his action unless he's bluffing. If he has a value hand he will either check call to make lp's bet effective, or check raise to get more off him. If the guy in lp realizes this he can now play the hand optimally, and still retain the benefit of having acted out of turn. So I'm not sure it really conveys a benefit on the guy who was first to act, unless they get into a levelling war.
Not sure if there is a better ruling tbh but just think the logic behind this one might be bad.
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Originally posted by starrbar View PostI didnt get the option to check tho after I bet, of course I would and then check called iv the virtual nuts lol!
Sounds like you blew up after this, probably better off looking at that rather than saying someone was angle shooting, who gives a fuck if he was anyway, your gonna come across a lot of dodgy fuckers in poker so if your worried about someone like Dice acting out of turn your fucked for when you come across actual scumbags/cheats. At least you blew up in style, sounds hilarious.
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I would stop now if I were you eoin. It was a fair enough ruling, you have no right to come on here, multiaccounting and accusing dice of angle shooting and looking for your money back. also seems a coincidence that you put up a thread looking for staking at the same time.
go back to your wormhole.
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i want to make this clear,i posted my opinion on the facts of the hand,not knowing there were other motives behind the thread which i find kinda sad,i thought this forum was to discuss poker issues.im 100% certain there was no angleshooting in the hand just an honest mistake we have all acted out of turn by mistake before.but if the same happened to us and the player was tonyG or the devilfish we might not give them the benifit of the doubt,so what i think should of happened in the hand is the action should of been frozen when the player acted out of turn until the dealer or td explains to the other player what his options are even if he has acted just after the out of turn player
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Originally posted by Downtown View PostI would stop now if I were you eoin. It was a fair enough ruling, you have no right to come on here, multiaccounting and accusing dice of angle shooting and looking for your money back. also seems a coincidence that you put up a thread looking for staking at the same time.
go back to your wormhole.
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jaysus Eoin relax would ya, you are only making matters worse for yourself.
Just forget it, both parties involved have explained the situation , including JP, so no point in going further, as its going to turn into something nasty!
*michelle with her level head on todayHer sky-ness
© 5starpool
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostI acted on the river because I thought I saw Eoin tap the table to check as he looked down.
I cant honestly say i was 100% sure he had checked but rashly put my chips into the middle.
It was not a premeditated move or angle-shoot. It happened in a split second.
As for the ruling, initially the dealer gave me my options back so i chose to take my chips back & fold. The floor was then called & ruled that Eoin got the pot so I left only to be called back from outside to be given back my chips. I did say that the ruling seemed to penalise Eoin for doing nothing wrong.
It did not cost you the tournament Eoin as after the pot you had 80k+ chips at the 200/400 level. What cost you a deep run was a hand vs Mr. Lappin (welcome to IPB!) about 30mins later & your subsequent play in the 3 hands immediately after that.
Also, I did reply to your FB messages despite not liking the tone of them & especially questioning JP's integrity in them which was way out of line.
You have said if I dont refund you your €250 buyin you will slate me on IPB/FB/2+2 and i will not be doing that, so fire away. I have more important things to worry about in life.
The last line of the message i sent you on FB still stands in that i will buy you a pint next time I see you.
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostI acted on the river because I thought I saw Eoin tap the table to check as he looked down.
I cant honestly say i was 100% sure he had checked but rashly put my chips into the middle.
It was not a premeditated move or angle-shoot. It happened in a split second.
As for the ruling, initially the dealer gave me my options back so i chose to take my chips back & fold. The floor was then called & ruled that Eoin got the pot so I left only to be called back from outside to be given back my chips. I did say that the ruling seemed to penalise Eoin for doing nothing wrong.
It did not cost you the tournament Eoin as after the pot you had 80k+ chips at the 200/400 level. What cost you a deep run was a hand vs Mr. Lappin (welcome to IPB!) about 30mins later & your subsequent play in the 3 hands immediately after that.
Also, I did reply to your FB messages despite not liking the tone of them & especially questioning JP's integrity in them which was way out of line.
You have said if I dont refund you your €250 buyin you will slate me on IPB/FB/2+2 and i will not be doing that, so fire away. I have more important things to worry about in life.
The last line of the message i sent you on FB still stands in that i will buy you a pint next time I see you.
Originally posted by starrbar View PostNo I didnt come on labeling anybody, nor did I mention who villan was! Some1 else done that and some1 else said which event it was. I want to be very clear on that. It was never my intension for people who already didnt know to find out who villan was or which event it was!!! The reason I posted the thread was to get people's opinions on the rule to think if ye thinks its fair and to give an axample as a lot people I know disagree and dont like the rule in a vacuum that it)Originally posted by starrbar View PostI wouldnt even if a valid response to that ya little keyboard warrior!!!Originally posted by starrbar View Postlol at multi accounting? where do u get this shit from, u little D4 hit and run merchant!"you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)
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Originally posted by tylerdurden94 View PostThat is absolutely disgraceful
Eoin I had advised you that when coming back that you had to keep a level head and not stir up a load of trouble, if you keep up this attitude you will be on a permanent ban and there will be no comeback from it.
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Originally posted by starrbar View PostSeems a bit harsh when u look at the comments im replying too.
I was lolling away at this thread until Dice's response.
Your retarded bribery attempt exposes you as a little scumbag, not a smart one but a scumbag nonetheless, and is deserved of a lenghty ban imo.
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Okay, timeout. I don't really think there is more to say here, but if someone can provide a compelling argument to the contrary shoot me a PM and I'll open it back up if necessary.
Boo Lloyd, spoiling our fun, etc."Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes
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Okay, I've got a couple of requests to reopen this, so I will. But please note that this is now a place to think before clicking the post button. Any personal abuse, or anything particularly controversial will be viewed in a very dim light."Worldly wisdom teaches that it is better for reputation to fail conventionally than to succeed unconventionally." - John Maynard Keynes
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Originally posted by LuckyLloyd View PostOkay, Ive got a couple of requests to reopen this, so I will. But please note that this is now a place to think before clicking the post button. Any personal abuse, or anything particularly controversial will be viewed in a very dim light.Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt
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lol at this thread and lol at blaaaaaaah and lappin.
I've gone from consulting my 12 year old cousin to translate what baaaaaah is talking about with his abbreviated text speak posts to consulting the dictionary to find out what Lappin was talking about with "calumny".
(every day is a school day I suppose)
@ Eoin....if that's the worst thing that ever happens to you'll be very lucky. Grow up ffs.
@ everybody....talking about angle shooting as if its some form of attack on children is ridicules in my opinion. As there is no rule in place where a player could be ejected from the tournament for angle shooting (afaik) you could make an argument that its part of the game.
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I was ridic tilted and upset when i asked for buy in back, was out of line on my part.
Also id like to know blaaaa and ghostfaceste's version they heard of the hand? And the angle they heard was made on the river???
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Just to say that Eoin did apologise to me about asking for the buyin back. It didnt really bother me that much anyway as I had assumed it was done while in bad humour (which it obviously was) & he probably wouldnt really mean it with hindsight. Its all forgotten as far as I'm concerned & I think it is with him aswell at this stage.
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostJust to say that Eoin did apologise to me about asking for the buyin back. It didnt really bother me that much anyway as I had assumed it was done while in bad humour (which it obviously was) & he probably wouldnt really mean it with hindsight. Its all forgotten as far as I'm concerned & I think it is with him aswell at this stage.
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Originally posted by blaaaaaaah View PostI hope someone from your table at the time comes on and gives the full hand history, also jps version would be good too. I was told this hand differently that someone tried to angle when jp explained the rules on the bet out of turn.
Also, there is a tournament section for this type of thread, you know that right?
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Originally posted by starrbar View Postlol at multi accounting? where do u get this shit from, u little D4 hit and run merchant!D15 CASINO, Mulhuddart Village (opp Blanchardstown shopping centre)
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Originally posted by starrbar View PostCare to elaborate on this version lads?? What was the angle???? Ghost face Ste said earlier in thread he heard this too. Only 3rd time to ask!
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Good old google
Originally posted by michelle SatNav View PostJust out of pure curiosity Wtf is a hit and run merchant ?
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Originally posted by ghostface ste View PostDidnt see you asking bout this cos I stopped reading this yoke. Not to stir up more shit but link to post, couldnt remember where it was. As Ciaran said he wasnt sure at the time but think someone mentioned this to me aswell. Anywho http://www.irishpokerboards.com/foru...&postcount=360
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Glad to see that Starrbar has copped onto himself at last in this thread, better late than never.
However what the thread does show is the lack of understanding that some TD's have for actually playing poker. The rule in place at this game is so ill conceived it's tilting, especially JP's understanding of it: in Eoins case here had he been given his options back he only bets the river if he's bluffing so therefore the whole theory behind the rule change is complete BS. Well played Starrbar, at least something has come out of the thread.
PPS lol also @ the comment about Downtown, the rudest and most condescending person I've ever witnessed at a poker table, bar none.
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Originally posted by Arazi View PostGlad to see that Starrbar has copped onto himself at last in this thread, better late than never.
However what the thread does show is the lack of understanding that some TD's have for actually playing poker. The rule in place at this game is so ill conceived it's tilting, especially JP's understanding of it: in Eoins case here had he been given his options back he only bets the river if he's bluffing so therefore the whole theory behind the rule change is complete BS. Well played Starrbar, at least something has come out of the thread.
PPS lol also @ the comment about Downtown, the rudest and most condescending person I've ever witnessed at a poker table, bar none.
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Originally posted by Dice75 View PostI agree that this example shows the rule up a bit as it puts the onus on Eoin to make a decision if we both happen to be holding similar hands with marginal difference between them with similar stacks. (eg - if the board was AQ357 and i'm holding A9 v his A10 & I shove oop first, it really puts the player who has done nothing wrong to a decision and not the other way round if he gets to act in position & shove first).
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Have another hand from an omaha live cash game I want to put up? Where should I post this, wouldnt wana upset blaaaa again
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Originally posted by starrbar View PostIts funny cause its true
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Originally posted by starrbar View PostPoker players will play poker for a variety of reasons, but for many, the primary goal is to book a win in the game. Some players have set specific goals, or at least have a general idea about how much money they are likely to make during a winning session. If they meet these goals or expectations, they cash out, regardless of how long they have been playing for. If they win right away, their session could be as short as a few hands, or even one hand. If you cash out after playing for a very short time, simply because you are winning, it is referred to as a “hit and run.” Players who routinely engage in this type of behavior are known, unflatteringly, as “hit and run artists.”
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Originally posted by Downtown View PostWell its not. Im not from D4 or anywhere near it. Connemara is a long way away and so is boarding school In Tuam. Also havent got a clue what you mean about hit and running. Iv hardly played any poker with you. Dont try and deflect the heat on yourself by taking digs at me. You acted like a complete scumbag right throughout this.
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Originally posted by Downtown View PostKnew this was too intelligent for you too, you absolute fraud
http://www.poker-babes.com/poker/def...s/hit-and-run/
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Originally posted by Arazi View PostGlad to see that Starrbar has copped onto himself at last in this thread, better late than never.
However what the thread does show is the lack of understanding that some TD's have for actually playing poker. The rule in place at this game is so ill conceived it's tilting, especially JP's understanding of it: in Eoins case here had he been given his options back he only bets the river if he's bluffing so therefore the whole theory behind the rule change is complete BS. Well played Starrbar, at least something has come out of the thread.
PPS lol also @ the comment about Downtown, the rudest and most condescending person I've ever witnessed at a poker table, bar none.
Also dont know how a thread where the OP tried to blackmail one of the most respected members on here ha turned into digs at me.
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Originally posted by Downtown View PostDo I know you? I am usually pretty quiet at the table, dont play live much except for festivals and def v quiet there. Unless you have caught me on a bad one in the jackpot in the wee hours I would disagree strongly with this and think most people would too.
Also dont know how a thread where the OP tried to blackmail one of the most respected members on here ha turned into digs at me.
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Originally posted by Downtown View PostWell its not. Im not from D4 or anywhere near it. Connemara is a long way away and so is boarding school In Tuam. Also havent got a clue what you mean about hit and running. Iv hardly played any poker with you. Dont try and deflect the heat on yourself by taking digs at me. You acted like a complete scumbag right throughout this.
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Originally posted by starrbar View PostI wasnt referring to the D4 part btw. An im not the only one havin digs did u miss the rest too? U have the poshist Connemara acsent iv ever heard, ur some fake lol
Also when have I ever hit and run? Ive only played with you once, I was playing for hours, you get in the game play like a tosser stack off to me and leave 25 minutes after that. Think I put 4 hrs into the game and was only a 100 quid. get over yourself.
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