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call/fold 3bet shove w JJ???

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    call/fold 3bet shove w JJ???

    I start the hand w roughly 50k. Blinds are 500/1k and Im utg. Villain has 35k or so and doubled up in the previous hand. I raise to 2300 w JJ. Its folded around to villain in SB and he goes all in for 35k. Folded back to me. There are 15 people left in tourney with 900e up top + a 100e ticket. I have above average stack and Im at a relatively soft table where I think I have a slight edge. Villain is mostly quite tight in later stages of tourneys and I have seen him make this move many times before. Would like to hear any opinion on the hand.
    Thanks

    #2
    Instant call. Villain would need to be very tight to consider folding. You can discount AA or KK because of the sizing so you are basically hoping he doesn't have queens. His range is heavily weighted towards hands you beat/flipping with.

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      #3
      Yea i think 1010+ AQ+ i call here, I'm not loving life but still in tourney if you lose the flip and with your edge you'l know when to gather chips back. I think ya gotta call as mentioned above highly unlike he's doing this with KK+ screams a bit like medium pair type hand just wanting to take it down there
      take sweets from strangers, lose everything!

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        #4
        take out aces anyway, if he just doubled and is tight your prob against a range of AK, TT-KK u have 47% equity if its a soft tourney just fold and play your healthy stack imo

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          #5
          Originally posted by B8kedbean View Post
          take out aces anyway, if he just doubled and is tight your prob against a range of AK, TT-KK u have 47% equity if its a soft tourney just fold and play your healthy stack imo
          He has JJ, safe to assume he's not playing AA KK like this especially a reg as stated, so basically your only worry is QQ, AQ+ dunno how you can fold mate, way to tight imo
          take sweets from strangers, lose everything!

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            #6
            Originally posted by 4ofakind1489 View Post
            Yea i think 1010+ AQ+ i call here, I'm not loving life but still in tourney if you lose the flip and with your edge you'l know when to gather chips back. I think ya gotta call as mentioned above highly unlike he's doing this with KK+ screams a bit like medium pair type hand just wanting to take it down there
            I was thinking he could have as said already medium pairs or possibly AK. Didnt put him on AQ as he wouldnt do it with that IMO. Took him off QQ, KK, AA as he is never shoving 30bb with these hands. My feeling was he had AK but does it make sense to fold, knowing you're ahead because you want to stay away from a flip given I have a good stack and its deep in tourney?

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              #7
              Originally posted by deanolydon View Post
              does it make sense to fold, knowing you're ahead because you want to stay away from a flip given I have a good stack and its deep in tourney?
              Its not a flip given his range, you should be crushing him a lot here and are virtually never behind and only rarely flipping (even then you're slightly ahead and its 2/3 of your stack)

              You have seen him make this move before, I assume you didn't see his holdings those times?
              and even if you didn't the fact you've seen him do it a lot means he's doing it with a wide range

              I do see your 'small ball' point but you're prob 60%+ against his range so I don't think you can really fold unless its like the big one drop or something

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                #8
                Originally posted by 8611 View Post
                Its not a flip given his range, you should be crushing him a lot here and are virtually never behind and only rarely flipping (even then you're slightly ahead and its 2/3 of your stack)

                You have seen him make this move before, I assume you didn't see his holdings those times?
                and even if you didn't the fact you've seen him do it a lot means he's doing it with a wide range

                I do see your 'small ball' point but you're prob 60%+ against his range so I don't think you can really fold unless its like the big one drop or something
                Havent seen his cards many times because he has shipped 25+ bb plenty of times when I have been at his table. He always does it. After a bit of a think I called and he had what I thought, AK. He hit on flop and left me crippled. Just asking because said it to one of the lads and he thought he never wants a flip at this stage of tourney and best to avoid if possible even if you think you're ahead in this spot.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by deanolydon View Post
                  Just asking because said it to one of the lads and he thought he never wants a flip at this stage of tourney and best to avoid if possible even if you think you're ahead in this spot.
                  Sorry for chiming in late but better late then never lol...OK what u say your mate says is very much correct IMO...There is a lot of reasons to call and a lot of reasons to fold..If i feel ive an edge on the players at my table with such a healthy stack I see no reason to take such a gamble, basically losing this flip will leave us in bad shape with 15bb and prob feeling abit hard done by after losing such a flip and takes away the edge we had because we only have a push or fold stack now.IMO these sort of All-in happy players aren't great and play the all-in game because they haven't got much post flop play and just click the all-in button .Dont let there bad play drag u down to there level.... Thats just my 2cents could be shit talk but how and ever lol goodluck

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by stefy118 View Post
                    Sorry for chiming in late but better late then never lol...OK what u say your mate says is very much correct IMO...There is a lot of reasons to call and a lot of reasons to fold..If i feel ive an edge on the players at my table with such a healthy stack I see no reason to take such a gamble, basically losing this flip will leave us in bad shape with 15bb and prob feeling abit hard done by after losing such a flip and takes away the edge we had because we only have a push or fold stack now.IMO these sort of All-in happy players aren't great and play the all-in game because they haven't got much post flop play and just click the all-in button .Dont let there bad play drag u down to there level.... Thats just my 2cents could be shit talk but how and ever lol goodluck
                    Thanks for reply, ya this what exactly his point. I knew ai was ahead but just stalled on whether or jot I wanted the flip. Looking back I probably fold as Im still left with 45bb or so and can use it a lot with my table. Felt very hard done by as you say after the hand and was obviously questioning whether or not I made the right call or not. at the time I felt I did want flip because in order to win tourneys you do need to win these flips. Thanks

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