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Old 06-07-15, 03:29   #1
fivebetbluf3
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Fitz 1/2 ruleing

Live 1\2 I bet 80 on the river player calls I turnover over straight to the K he let's a sigh and bangs the table. Throws in the 80 cards still face down. Pot gets rewarded to me as he slams over his cards. We put out the blinds and riffle the deck for the next hand. I then say what did he have because I didn't even look because his reaction was enough to tell me I won the pot and was too busy stacking chips when he revealed his hand. Lower straight I get told 108 I says that was a chop n laugh. Agree to pay back the final bet out of my wallet as he is right beside me. He knows it been rewarded and too late also.. Floors called by dealer anyway to double check ruling.. Floor agrees pots awarded too late move on. We carry on then floor manager number 2 comes over and asks whats wrong and forces me to pay 115 euro back? Villan is not even at the table at this time as the hand is over. I auto say u can't do that mate show me the special house rules. Final rule is. Yeah I can and I have the rules in my head... Thoughts?

Last edited by fivebetbluf3; 06-07-15 at 06:56.
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Old 06-07-15, 04:22   #2
Mellor
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The player turned over the same hand as you (K high straight), and the pot was awarded to you in error.
The error was pointed out by you before any action took place on the next hand (putting out the blinds doesn't constitute action). So the pot gets chopped.
Where is the issue here?

The house is correct to split chips on the table imo. Why would they need special house rules doe this?
And I don't why you have an issue with splitting the chips, but you were going to pay him back in cash?
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Old 06-07-15, 04:39   #3
fivebetbluf3
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Originally Posted by Mellor View Post
The player turned over the same hand as you (K high straight), and the pot was awarded to you in error.
The error was pointed out by you before any action took place on the next hand (putting out the blinds doesn't constitute action). So the pot gets chopped.
Where is the issue here?

The house is correct to split chips on the table imo. Why would they need special house rules doe this?
And I don't why you have an issue with splitting the chips, but you were going to pay him back in cash?
Sorry floor manager 2 comes over after action has taking place. The opponent had been out for a smoke and back before I had to give him back the chips. Because these are the rules. If I agree to pay him back that's a gentle mens agreement not to do with the casino. They need 1 set of rules and stick by them. Is it not a rule in poker that if the pot is awarded its too late?
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Old 06-07-15, 09:46   #4
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Originally Posted by fivebetbluf3 View Post
Sorry floor manager 2 comes over after action has taking place. The opponent had been out for a smoke and back before I had to give him back the chips. Because these are the rules. If I agree to pay him back that's a gentle mens agreement not to do with the casino. They need 1 set of rules and stick by them. Is it not a rule in poker that if the pot is awarded its too late?
I dont think your last line is correct. Is there not a rule that you cant kill a winning (chopping?) hand?

As to how far this can be applied retrospectively i dont know.

What was the dealer at anyway.
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Old 06-07-15, 10:52   #5
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Did he actually turn his hand over?
If a new hand has started play must move on a hand begins with the first riffle.
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Old 06-07-15, 11:51   #6
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If the hand was tabled loads of cameras to verify then give him half the pot the cards upturned speak.
The dealers incompetence should not stop you doing the right thing.
If your a reg in the game and trying to avoid giving half the pot its pretty bad form
unless it was one of a few horrible creatures that infest the game.
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Old 06-07-15, 13:17   #7
fivebetbluf3
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Originally Posted by Dice75 View Post
I dont think your last line is correct. Is there not a rule that you cant kill a winning (chopping?) hand?

As to how far this can be applied retrospectively i dont know.

What was the dealer at anyway.
Dealer was on same boat as me. He was pushing over the pot as the hand was revealed not looking. They player was speaking of how unlucky he just got . He awarded the pot picked up the now exposed cards and the board shuffeled up and then I asked what he had... So were all running the board back out in our heads while realising it should of been a chop. Never in all my days have a seen a player forced to hand back over chips from there stack after a hand has taking place
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Old 06-07-15, 13:24   #8
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Originally Posted by Donk Magnet View Post
Did he actually turn his hand over?
If a new hand has started play must move on a hand begins with the first riffle.
He exposed his hand after he paid the pot while the dealer was pushing the pot towards me. Board still being visable at this time but no one realising the chop. Cards get taking in from the dealer we place blinds and convo ensues... At this Pont he just blames dealer, dealer apologies. Everyone knows the rule... even the floor. Until a floor manager 2 with his own personal copy of the fitz rules in his head rules this decision. Goes grabs the player from the smoke area brings him in and force me to hand over chips from my stack... Strange. By this time we're 4-5 hands down the line
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Old 06-07-15, 13:29   #9
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Originally Posted by fivebetbluf3 View Post
He exposed his hand after he paid the pot while the dealer was pushing the pot towards me. Board still being visable at this time but no one realising the chop. Cards get taking in from the dealer we place blinds and convo ensues... At this Pont he just blames dealer, dealer apologies. Everyone knows the rule... even the floor. Until a floor manager 2 with his own personal copy of the fitz rules in his head rules this decision. Goes grabs the player from the smoke area brings him in and force me to hand over chips from my stack... Strange. By this time we're 4-5 hands down the line
Are you angry at the ruling or giving back the chips?
I think i would have given back the chips regardless of the amount if he tabled his hand and it was a split pot.
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Old 06-07-15, 13:33   #10
fivebetbluf3
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If the hand was tabled loads of cameras to verify then give him half the pot the cards upturned speak.
The dealers incompetence should not stop you doing the right thing.
If your a reg in the game and trying to avoid giving half the pot its pretty bad form
unless it was one of a few horrible creatures that infest the game.
There are camaras my point being is this not a rule we have? Is it cool to go play live poker and the people in charge are making rules up as they go along... It's amateur hour in the fitz tbh if you ask some the good club owners/TDs a ruling they give u a full rule that everyone abides by and that is that. The villan was a well known losing reg and another reason why I felt they were making this insane ruling as I felt at the time...
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Old 06-07-15, 13:36   #11
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Originally Posted by Sickpuppy View Post
Are you angry at the ruling or giving back the chips?
I think i would have given back the chips regardless of the amount if he tabled his hand and it was a split pot.
At the rule. This is the 3rd silly ruling iv seen inside 2 months 2nd v me. Dealers have gone as far to tell me they make the rules at there own discression which I found funny. There is no rule just what they feel at time is ok and good for the game
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Old 06-07-15, 13:41   #12
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Seems like a strange ruling. What would happen if you'd been stacked in the meantime? Would the floor manager make you go to an ATM to reimburse the other guy?
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Old 06-07-15, 13:44   #13
fivebetbluf3
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Iv no idea. Funnily enough I stated the hand with more then I had after paying 115 back so it cost me roughly 20 euro also. Weather in rake or what I am not sure. By this stage I'm kinda tilted because I know the rule so I don't even bother about it.
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Old 06-07-15, 13:44   #14
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Seems like a strange ruling. What would happen if you'd been stacked in the meantime? Would the floor manager make you go to an ATM to reimburse the other guy?
Goood point by Kev if you done your stack in enxt hand or left table and lost it on the wheel or blackjack then what?
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Old 06-07-15, 13:49   #15
fivebetbluf3
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Not sure. He was getting the 80 back but that had nothing to do with the floor that was between me and him . The chips we're in play and that was that. Mistakes we're made by the player/dealer not me. Rules are there to protect players and this is not happening here
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Old 06-07-15, 13:58   #16
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I'm fairly sure that in this situation where cameras could be checked that he would get half the pot upon reviewing of the footage.

There is no rule that once a pot is awarded that the chips can't be taken back.
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Old 06-07-15, 14:07   #17
fivebetbluf3
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There is no rule that once a pot is awarded that the chips can't be taken back.[/QUOTE]

Really? I was under the assumption there was
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Old 06-07-15, 14:52   #18
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if his cards are for all too see then his hand is live and split pot should have been awarded .
now if the pot was awarded to you by mistake and play started for next hand and you ask and say that it was really a split pot they should not really be a need for floor people to come too table you yourself should have said here your share and not just his 80 euro last bet

i think myself you feel wronged but in fairness you were going to hand back 80 when you really should have been giving back 115 euro so no injustice done
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Old 06-07-15, 15:18   #19
fivebetbluf3
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Ok just got confirmation off a TD who has a definitive answer... The dealer can not kill a winning hand and the pot should be chopped even after the next riffle. This is the rule I was looking for instead of been put to me the way it was. The moral high ground is clear what to do to reply to other comments am just looking for a rule as far as the casinos standpoint as I was ruled against by them.
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Old 06-07-15, 20:02   #20
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Thread cleaned up of nonsense please keep it on topic folks.
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