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Old 09-08-14, 13:29   #1
TheImprover
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Got some stick over this hand

I have 65 hands on this villain on this table and he is playing 45/25/ 3bet 10, he has cbet pot size a few times already, he is basically a whale.

In play I felt this was pretty standard stuff but I got some stick over it as its so early in the tourney.



IPoker No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 40/80 Blinds (9 handed) - IPoker Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

SB (t25,185)
BB (t12,090)
UTG (t4,535)
UTG+1 (t6,120)
MP1 (t5,950)
MP2 (t5,900)
MP3 (t5,880)
Hero (CO) (t5,265)
Button (t4,308)

Hero's M: 43.88

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, 10
UTG calls t80, 4 folds, Hero raises t200, 1 fold, SB raises t360, 1 fold, UTG calls t320, Hero calls t200

Flop: (t1,280) 3, 6, 4 (3 players)
SB bets t1,280, 1 fold, Hero raises t4,865 (All-In), SB calls t3,585

Turn: (t11,010) K (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t11,010) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t11,010

Results below:
Spoiler
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Old 09-08-14, 17:40   #2
noname1255
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i would iso limper little larger maybe 280
the cold 4bet min re-raise is never nice to see, i suppose the abuse you got was for flop play doesnt seem much point in going all in
his line screams strength mashing pot means whatever he has, hes happy to get all in.
pretty ugly spot
iso larger
flat flop
fold turn if he pots again?
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Old 09-08-14, 19:58   #3
LTL
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Iso more pre (255). Why are you shoving flop, you're getting snapped off by his range that crushes you and fold out AK/AQ that he may well barrel with on all turns too.

Turn's so read dependant. Vs a villain who barrel bluffs light I call it off on a lot of turns. You said he's been cbetting pot, has he been continuing with turn bets when called or check/giving up? Seems an ok spot to call it off vs someone who's blindly potting flop/turns.

Last edited by LTL; 09-08-14 at 20:00.
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Old 09-08-14, 21:48   #4
Flushdraw
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That converter never gets the amounts right. Looks like he did make it 280 pre
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Old 09-08-14, 22:30   #5
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what did you think he had?
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Old 10-08-14, 07:13   #6
TheImprover
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This particular Villain is doing this with all his pairs 77+ and all his AK/AQ/AJ's, basically I would expect him to be cbetting here with any over's and he has pot cbet nearly everytime, I was actually shocked to see him with the hand he had but the whale's are entitled to hit hands too.

With this argument there could be a point for flat calling his flop bet and leaving him bluff off some more but he is not folding out 77+ to my ship, he probably calls off with AK/AQ so I felt this was the best route to maximise value. I can't really recall any turn action, he won most of his pots on flops by pot cbetting.

No Tony, I did make it 200, this is something I will have to adjust for in the early stages when we are deep, this has been noted already.
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Old 10-08-14, 08:02   #7
mdoug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheImprover View Post
This particular Villain is doing this with all his pairs 77+ and all his AK/AQ/AJ's, basically I would expect him to be cbetting here with any over's and he has pot cbet nearly everytime, I was actually shocked to see him with the hand he had but the whale's are entitled to hit hands too.

With this argument there could be a point for flat calling his flop bet and leaving him bluff off some more but he is not folding out 77+ to my ship, he probably calls off with AK/AQ so I felt this was the best route to maximise value. I can't really recall any turn action, he won most of his pots on flops by pot cbetting.

No Tony, I did make it 200, this is something I will have to adjust for in the early stages when we are deep, this has been noted already.
If this is the case surely you can see why you are getting stick. Let's just say he has 77/88/99 the same amount of times he has jj+(honestly can't see that but let's just use this for the numbers). So you are 50/50 to either be the big underdog or big favourite. Then if he has ak/aq the other times you are gonna be 75% favourite... So you are getting your entire stack in on 40/80 where in your opinion you are going to be getting it in ahead only 6/10 and are roughly 51% to win the hand overall imo. Surely at such lower blinds you can find better spots than 51% for 65 bb's

Of those 6 times you get it in you are 75% favourite in 4 spots(ak/aq/aj/77) and 90% in the other (88/99), and then when you do get it in behind you are ~9.5% to get any chips back in the 4 spots you get it in behind.
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Old 10-08-14, 10:46   #8
TheImprover
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Can somone stick this into flopzilla with the ranges I have given, i'm not too familiar with it.
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Old 13-08-14, 01:40   #9
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Call flop revaluate turn is the only line, probably sigh-calling off on any non-A/K but that's infinitely preferable to jamming flop in such a clear WA/WB spot. You've made a lot of big assumptions about villains tendencies to validate the shove but in reality he won't have worse pairs as often as overpairs after the 3b pre and I'd highly doubt he goes pot/call-off with A-high anywhere near as often as you suspect. Let him barrel
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