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Old 22-05-14, 14:32   #1
RunnerRunner
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Fold or Call?

hey guys,
I was in a tournament last night 14 players left out of 67. avg stack was 40k, blinds 1200/2400.

im on the BB with 25K, folded around to the button (aggressive), shoves all in for 15k. i call with A2s against his Q4h. unfortunately i lost but was it the right call? i figured he could do this with any 2 cards so i didnt mind getting it in 60/40 but given how late in the tournament it was i think it was the wrong thing to do? any advice would be great, Thanks.
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Old 22-05-14, 16:20   #2
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Its better to push with raggy aces rather that call with them in my opinion.

You've 10 BBs - your calling off 60% of your stack with 1 over card. Not sure you were 60% 40% - I could be wrong though... I'm no good at maths. I'm more of a 'feel' player.
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Old 22-05-14, 16:42   #3
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Fold, you will find better spots and you have the btn coming up.
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Old 22-05-14, 16:48   #4
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call is fine imo, he should be shoving super wide in this spot
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Old 22-05-14, 17:35   #5
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Probably leaning towards a fold & be the one shoving.

I know it shouldn't, but might depend on how close to the money (9-10 paid I'm guessing)
and how much that means to you. Other stacks left in the Tourney (i.e. what position are we in ?/14) and how the table has been playing (i.e will our shoves get through, especially from CO/button).

I'm sure you are aware of the hands we are ahead of/behind to so not gonna list them, but the problem with A2 is you cant dominate anything. Then again, i'd guess a good few would call here too.
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Old 22-05-14, 17:47   #6
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its a little over a 6bb shove in most likely a crapshoot of a tourney where we have below avg chips and 10bb's, no one should ever be folding here in this spot.
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Old 22-05-14, 18:02   #7
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I know its a profitable calling range but when i think about it i could have maybe got him in a better spot
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Old 22-05-14, 18:03   #8
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Forgot to mention blinds are 15 mins each level
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Old 22-05-14, 18:04   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chips1234 View Post
its a little over a 6bb shove in most likely a crapshoot of a tourney where we have below avg chips and 10bb's, no one should ever be folding here in this spot.
Had a similar spot a couple of years ago on a Live Bubble (€1700 min-cash)

H4H and there's an all-in on the other table (both 6 handed). 4 players off our table go to watch all-in hand who survives and their hands are dead as they don't make it back to seats in time.

Left are a dead BB (7bbs), me in SB (8bbs) and button (8bbs) - we are the 3 shorties in Tourney - and button shoves on me. A3o, call or fold?
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Old 22-05-14, 18:09   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice75 View Post
Had a similar spot a couple of years ago on a Live Bubble (€1700 min-cash)

H4H and there's an all-in on the other table (both 6 handed). 4 players off our table go to watch all-in hand who survives and their hands are dead as they don't make it back to seats in time.

Left are a dead BB (7bbs), me in SB (8bbs) and button (8bbs) - we are the 3 shorties in Tourney - and button shoves on me. A3o, call or fold?
in what way is this similar?
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Old 22-05-14, 18:12   #11
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in what way is this similar?
I suppose only in the fact we are closing the action facing a shove with a similar holding on or near the money.

More so just asking Chips his opinion, sorry for derailing.
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Old 22-05-14, 18:18   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chips1234 View Post
its a little over a 6bb shove in most likely a crapshoot of a tourney where we have below avg chips and 10bb's, no one should ever be folding here in this spot.
+1

In a 67 player tournament, there's probably 8 paid, and it's going to be 2 shorthanded tables of 7 or so players and blinds will come through a lot quicker. We've 10 bigs and we're going to be a favourite the vast majority of the time, so i'm happy to take this spot on. There's not a lot of difference if it's folded to the SB and he shoves the same stack, and i'm not folding Ax in that spot either.
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Old 22-05-14, 18:19   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice75 View Post
Had a similar spot a couple of years ago on a Live Bubble (€1700 min-cash)

H4H and there's an all-in on the other table (both 6 handed). 4 players off our table go to watch all-in hand who survives and their hands are dead as they don't make it back to seats in time.

Left are a dead BB (7bbs), me in SB (8bbs) and button (8bbs) - we are the 3 shorties in Tourney - and button shoves on me. A3o, call or fold?
thats a completely diff situation though, its on exact H4H play, OP's spot isnt at the bubble yet.and we dont know how far away from the bubble he is, either way bubbles shouldnt affect our play and if they do we shouldnt be playing that high of a buyin anyways. the only thing similar is both villains should be shoving close to any two cards and we should be still calling with A3o

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Equity Win Tie
MP2 54.75% 52.57% 2.18% { Ac3s }
MP3 45.25% 43.07% 2.18% { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, A2o+, K3o+, Q3o+, J3o+, T3o+, 93o+, 83o+, 73o+, 63o+, 53o+, 43o }


thats your equity v an atc shove with the 2xo hands in it.

EDIT: your spot is alot closer obv due to the exact money bubble but we shouldnt be playing just to cash so thats why im calling in your hand.
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Old 22-05-14, 18:20   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice75 View Post
I suppose only in the fact we are closing the action facing a shove with a similar holding on or near the money.

More so just asking Chips his opinion, sorry for derailing.
yeah, interesting (tough) spot. my first impression is I so wanna be that tournament !...4 of them leave their hands for dead on the 1700 bubble (wow).

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Old 22-05-14, 18:21   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice75 View Post
Had a similar spot a couple of years ago on a Live Bubble (€1700 min-cash)

H4H and there's an all-in on the other table (both 6 handed). 4 players off our table go to watch all-in hand who survives and their hands are dead as they don't make it back to seats in time.

Left are a dead BB (7bbs), me in SB (8bbs) and button (8bbs) - we are the 3 shorties in Tourney - and button shoves on me. A3o, call or fold?
The fact you satellited into this changes it imo as mentioned to you before. If we're rolled for games that have a €1700 bubble, then i think i call. If we've got in on the cheap and the mincash is a decent bankroll boost, then i fold because we don't get into that spot enough to allow for the variance of the call. Just my 2c
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Old 22-05-14, 18:24   #16
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Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
The fact you satellited into this changes it imo as mentioned to you before. If we're rolled for games that have a €1700 bubble, then i think i call. If we've got in on the cheap and the mincash is a decent bankroll boost, then i fold because we don't get into that spot enough to allow for the variance of the call. Just my 2c
will we find a better spot though?? i mean we're nearly always in a hugely +chipEv situation.
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Old 22-05-14, 20:20   #17
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call unless you have really tight players on your left.
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Old 25-05-14, 15:07   #18
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Can't ever fold this imo we've almost certainly at least 55% equity against the button's range and we're getting 1.5/1(even assuming there isn't antes). Don't agree there'll be better spots than this as said you've 10bb in a poorly structured tourney you can't pass up on this spot, unlucky "lol flipaments" and on to the next one.
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Old 26-05-14, 14:25   #19
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Depends on a whole host of things e.g. bubble, standard of the others, how much the money means to you etc. but given the information provided, I happily call.
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Old 16-08-14, 13:32   #20
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imo if the villian is calling with any two cards then with an Ace low kicker is a fold .. his unpredictability makes this a gamble that will not pay off profitably in the long term..10 BB is enough to still make a few steals and wait for a better opportunity to double up..i can see however why some people think hey shud shove as an ace low kicker does beat a lot of hands except for all aces with a larger kicker..which is in his range..most pocket pairs beat it and i think suited connectors have better equity against it..
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