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Old 08-01-14, 12:33   #1
pppspecial
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JPs Christas Cracker ruling.

Blinds 150 300 I'm SB. Folded to the button who limps. I look at my hand place a chip on cards grab a single 1k chip and place it into the sb taking back just the 2x 25 chips leaving the 100 chip alongside the 1k chip without saying a word using the one arm. The Dealer deemed it to be a call instead off a raise and a ruling was called..... who deemed it a raise. So was all good.

A few minutes later JP came over the table and said this was the wrong ruling that it should off been a call because it was one chip used.

OPINIONS..

BTW not looking to flame or annoy anyone here JP is by far one off the best TDs in Ireland.

Its clearly 2 actions here and since 2005 I have been playing this way live only to be told im doing it all wrong nearly nine years on.

Dont want to make this mistake again if it is my fault.
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Old 08-01-14, 12:38   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pppspecial View Post
Blinds 150 300 I'm SB. Folded to the button who limps. I look at my hand place a chip on cards grab a single 1k chip and place it into the sb taking back just the 2x 25 chips leaving the 100 chip alongside the 1k chip without saying a word using the one arm. The Dealer deemed it to be a call instead off a raise and a ruling was called..... who deemed it a raise. So was all good.

A few minutes later JP came over the table and said this was the wrong ruling that it should off been a call because it was one chip used.

OPINIONS..

BTW not looking to flame or annoy anyone here JP is by far one off the best TDs in Ireland.

Its clearly 2 actions here and since 2005 I have been playing this way live only to be told im doing it all wrong nearly nine years on.

Dont want to make this mistake again if it is my fault.
Without googling the exact rule, my general feeling would be a call if you took back the sb. If you tossed 1k out on top, should be deemed a raise. Again just a practical assessment, rules may technically state something else.
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Old 08-01-14, 12:40   #3
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Originally Posted by brady23 View Post
Without googling the exact rule, my general feeling would be a call if you took back the sb. If you tossed 1k out on top, should be deemed a raise. Again just a practical assessment, rules may technically state something else.
I left the 100 chip and the extra 1k chip out. Just withdrawing the 50 chips .x2 25
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Old 08-01-14, 12:43   #4
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I'd like to see the rule used to make that a call. To me it's a raise.
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Old 08-01-14, 12:44   #5
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It was meant to be a raise to 1100. You dont have to talk at any point in poker.

I understand the rule regarding the single chip tossed without saying anything is a call but throwing 2 is a raise.
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Old 08-01-14, 12:51   #6
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It's not one chip, it's clearly two chips, the 100 plus the 1k. 100% raise
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Old 08-01-14, 13:22   #7
Dice75
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I would take the 1k on top of the 100 chip as a raise to 1100.

1k chip on its own with the 150 taken back = call.
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Old 08-01-14, 13:59   #8
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Ah misread, yeah as I stated it's a raise for me in that spot. I would say any amount including 2 chips over 450 would be deemed a raise??

I assume 50% or more on top of bb is still deemed to be a min raise if nothing is said??
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Old 08-01-14, 14:09   #9
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I'm going to let this run for a few days (as I did with the Ambiguous bet Rule) before I reply.
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Old 08-01-14, 14:27   #10
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without anyone saying anything a single chip = call
a double chip = raise
think this the way its been for as long as i been playing

ps i always tell new players to state what there doing it stops all confusion and stuff like this happening

Last edited by corkie123; 08-01-14 at 14:29.
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Old 08-01-14, 14:31   #11
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If you had taken back all your sb I would have said call, leaving some, raise.
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Old 08-01-14, 14:37   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice75 View Post
I would take the 1k on top of the 100 chip as a raise to 1100.

1k chip on its own with the 150 taken back = call.
This. And I cannot see how anyone could argue against it
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Old 08-01-14, 14:46   #13
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Originally Posted by Strewelpeter View Post
This. And I cannot see how anyone could argue against it
JP could
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Old 08-01-14, 15:23   #14
JPPoker-Christine
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Hi Dave,

If you feel like it, you could post this in the TDA forum as well.

http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?board=7.0

You'll get responses from guys who attend the tda summit every two years and help to draft the rules.
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Old 08-01-14, 15:26   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice75 View Post
I would take the 1k on top of the 100 chip as a raise to 1100.

1k chip on its own with the 150 taken back = call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strewelpeter View Post
This. And I cannot see how anyone could argue against it
I've played the same way as Dave all my life. I rarely announce bets and generally let the chips do the talking. I've always did as he did and took it for granted as a raise and never been called on it til last year at some stage when it was ruled a call.

Not sure of the exact rule, but afair the ruling is based on placing one oversized chip into the pot. The chips you put out for the SB are no longer yours, as they are now in the pot, so regardless of whether you take anything from the pot or not, you're still only putting one oversized chip into the pot. If you remove the single chip, you've just left a 100 chip which isn't over the 50% rule for a raise, so it's deemed a call.

I think that's the general jist of why JP may have ruled it as a call
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Old 08-01-14, 15:33   #16
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think we had this discussion previously in March aswell http://www.irishpokerboards.com/foru...highlight=chip

FD's 2nd paragraph above is spot on I think
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Old 08-01-14, 15:41   #17
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think we had this discussion previously in March aswell http://www.irishpokerboards.com/foru...highlight=chip
Yep, i didn't like the rule then, and i don't like it now but i can see where it comes from and why it's used. In the few games i've played in the casino up here, if someone makes a raise to say 425 and another guy puts out a 1k and 25 chip, it's automatically taken as a call and not even questioned becasue the players are just helping the dealer out with change the majority of the time. It's weird how things are perceived and how rules are ignored from club to club.
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Old 08-01-14, 15:44   #18
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Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
... The chips you put out for the SB are no longer yours...
Hmmm yea but they are in front of you, not yet in the middle and by taking one of them back and dropping the 1K the action is unambiguous.

He says

Quote:
grab a single 1k chip and place it into the sb taking back just the 2x 25 chips leaving the 100 chip alongside the 1k chip
So I can't see what the 100 hundred and the 50% raise has to do with it. Would it be different if it had been the bb and he took back 100 leaving 1200
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Old 08-01-14, 15:57   #19
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Originally Posted by Strewelpeter View Post
So I can't see what the 100 hundred and the 50% raise has to do with it. Would it be different if it had been the bb and he took back 100 leaving 1200
I'm not 100% myself, but i'm sure JP or BrianN explained it whereas there's some reason about taking 1 chip away and leaving an amount that's either above or below the 50% raise to determine whether it's a call or a raise. JP can probably tell me whether i'm sort of making sense or i've got the wrong end of the stick.
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Old 08-01-14, 16:49   #20
de dominator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice75 View Post
I would take the 1k on top of the 100 chip as a raise to 1100.

1k chip on its own with the 150 taken back = call.
I second this
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