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Old 02-07-12, 16:13   #1
GaryT
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2nd Nut Straight PLO

I'm not very good at omaha. I just started playing live 1 day ran like god and now play the odd time when the holdem games are bad. I also really enjoy playing PLO despite feeling a bit like the table mark some of the time.

This is a hand from a shorthanded 1 2 game, I think it was 6 handed at the time. I have about 380 villan covers. Table has been playing pretty loose passive.

I'm not sure if my memory is perfect here with sizing etc. but I' say it's pretty close.

I raise to 7 in the HJ with 5758 btn calls and villan in sb calls. Standard open right?

Flop comes 697 Villan in the sb leads for 17. I raise to 58. The villan in this hand has played all his draws passively so far. I'd expect him to C/c all draws and lead made hands. So I would say he's leading 2 pair+ hands, sets, made straights maybe some overpairs? Difficult to know for certain obviously so its possible he could just c/f some overpairs or 2 pair hands on this wet a board.

Would everybody raise here yeah?

Villan then thinks for a minute or 2 and raises the pot.

Hero?? Standard ship now and if he has better its a cooler?

Last edited by GaryT; 02-07-12 at 16:17.
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Old 02-07-12, 16:42   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
I'm not very good at omaha. I just started playing live 1 day ran like god and now play the odd time when the holdem games are bad. I also really enjoy playing PLO despite feeling a bit like the table mark some of the time.

This is a hand from a shorthanded 1 2 game, I think it was 6 handed at the time. I have about 380 villan covers. Table has been playing pretty loose passive.

I'm not sure if my memory is perfect here with sizing etc. but I' say it's pretty close.

I raise to 7 in the HJ with 5758 btn calls and villan in sb calls. Standard open right?

Flop comes 697 Villan in the sb leads for 17. I raise to 58. The villan in this hand has played all his draws passively so far. I'd expect him to C/c all draws and lead made hands. So I would say he's leading 2 pair+ hands, sets, made straights maybe some overpairs? Difficult to know for certain obviously so its possible he could just c/f some overpairs or 2 pair hands on this wet a board.

Would everybody raise here yeah?

Villan then thinks for a minute or 2 and raises the pot.

Hero?? Standard ship now and if he has better its a cooler?

OKay so, pot sized raise pre is standard. The Lead oop from Villain is reeeeeeally strong and 8Txx is definitely extremely likely once he does that and a loose passive table will always get callers pre with mid-rangey kinda hands like that. Your raise is good, defo the right play. He's never 3betting two-pair on the flop here and 3betting an overpair here would just be horrific. A set is possibe if he is a less experienced PLO player, but id probably ( and maybe this is just a matter of opinion ) flat your bet for pot control because re-raising your raise makes a set very vulnerable because your calling range will be polarized to an extremely strong hand at that point.

Let me just say, now i'd 4bet shove if i were you. You have a flush AND straight flush draw which improves your hand considerably. If he has your straight AND the flush covered (even though it's a weak flush draw) you kinda just have to tap the table and say nice hand. The bare (nut presumably) flush draw is so unlikely though, even though i know some guys who go absolutely mental with Nut-draws in PLO, but thats just such a dodgy play. You're getting 6/4 on a call so shoving (because now its a shove/fold sit) is profitable now once you win over once every 2.5 times. You'll lose a lot of the time in this spot but its still gotta be a shove.

I might have mangled the hand there and sorry if i have but that's what i make of it anyway ....
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Old 02-07-12, 17:05   #3
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You also have a SFD and a backdoor FD.
Shove all day.
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Old 02-07-12, 17:48   #4
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I'd deffo fold it.
U have the sucker straight and possibly 2 outs against 8 10 with better clubs.
Don't mind how you played it btw but for me given stacks getting it in is bad.
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Old 02-07-12, 18:20   #5
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Worst case scenario : He has Nut straight and redraw to higher clubs. In that scenario he is a 79% favourite. I do think that with a hand as huge as that he wouldn't mangle the hand by 3betting the flop, he'd probably call the raise and either barrell again or check-shove.

Other two scenarios are - (i) He has 10 8, no redraw. Depending on his other hole cards youre between a 41 and 49% shot to win the hand.
(ii) He has a higher club draw and a straight draw (For the sake of argument Im leaving out the dream scenario of JUST a club draw) . Depending on his hole cards youre between 67-69% favourite to win the hand.

So Its fairly marginal. But Unless you think it's worst case scenario a good chunk of the time, then the price may be just right to call.
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Old 02-07-12, 18:25   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
I'm not very good at omaha. I just started playing live 1 day ran like god and now play the odd time when the holdem games are bad. I also really enjoy playing PLO despite feeling a bit like the table mark some of the time.

This is a hand from a shorthanded 1 2 game, I think it was 6 handed at the time. I have about 380 villan covers. Table has been playing pretty loose passive.

I'm not sure if my memory is perfect here with sizing etc. but I' say it's pretty close.

I raise to 7 in the HJ with 5758 btn calls and villan in sb calls. Standard open right?

Flop comes 697 Villan in the sb leads for 17. I raise to 58. The villan in this hand has played all his draws passively so far. I'd expect him to C/c all draws and lead made hands. So I would say he's leading 2 pair+ hands, sets, made straights maybe some overpairs? Difficult to know for certain obviously so its possible he could just c/f some overpairs or 2 pair hands on this wet a board.

Would everybody raise here yeah?

Villan then thinks for a minute or 2 and raises the pot.

Hero?? Standard ship now and if he has better its a cooler?
I'm never raise folding this hand. If you raise, you should be prepared to put the loots in.

What flops do you want to see with that hand? this is close to the best you could have flopped.
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Old 02-07-12, 19:14   #7
Arazi
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I'm never raise folding this hand. If you raise, you should be prepared to put the loots in.

What flops do you want to see with that hand? this is close to the best you could have flopped.
It's not thou, that's the point, it could cost you 180 BB's. It might just be close to the worst hand we could have flopped and it's looking increasingly likely when he 3 bets that's that is the case.
When u raise the flop and he pots it then from my experience ESP given villians description he usually has nut straight and usually with redraws of some description.
We have the Sucker straight and possibly only 2 outs and we're honestly thinking about putting in a further 315 because we've put 65 in already?
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Old 02-07-12, 20:36   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arazi View Post
It's not thou, that's the point, it could cost you 180 BB's. It might just be close to the worst hand we could have flopped and it's looking increasingly likely when he 3 bets that's that is the case.
When u raise the flop and he pots it then from my experience ESP given villians description he usually has nut straight and usually with redraws of some description.
We have the Sucker straight and possibly only 2 outs and we're honestly thinking about putting in a further 315 because we've put 65 in already?
I honestly think you are giving villain a lot more credit than is due the standard live plo player.
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Old 03-07-12, 16:30   #9
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I ended up shoving. He had T8Qx with no redraw. I got there though. Just was curious about whether it was a standard spot to stack off or it was bad.

Seems to be at least reasonably close but I'm not sure if I like it as I'd expect him to have T8xx most of the time when he 3 bets there. Can't see him getting in worse than 99AcXc there so not in very good shape against his range.
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Old 03-07-12, 18:58   #10
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Honestly, most PLO players would get it in here. Sometimes if you think he is really ridic strong then a flat on the flop for pot control isnt bad either, and thats prolly what id do if he raised and i was oop, but it could be okay here aswell. If he is an inexperienced PLO, i think a set isnt impossible either, new players often go mental when they flop sets in PLO, it depends on the standard at the table i suppose
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Old 03-07-12, 19:44   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
I ended up shoving. He had T8Qx with no redraw. I got there though. Just was curious about whether it was a standard spot to stack off or it was bad.

Seems to be at least reasonably close but I'm not sure if I like it as I'd expect him to have T8xx most of the time when he 3 bets there. Can't see him getting in worse than 99AcXc there so not in very good shape against his range.
He's a decent favourite with T8Q*

board: 6:club:7:club:9:diamond:
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
5c5d7d8c42.83% 595,22590,792
T8Q*57.17% 809,66390,792


You're a tiny favourite against 99AcXc

board: 6:club:7:club:9:diamond:
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
5c5d7d8c50.96% 9,18224
99Ac*c49.04% 8,83424
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