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No Burn Card Before River

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    No Burn Card Before River

    Flop comes down, 2 players, bet & call.

    Turn hits putting 4 to a flush, player A bets & player B calls.

    River completes flush, player A insta-shoves, player B calls.

    It's then discovered that the burn card before the river was dealt was not burned i.e. the river card dealt is the burn card.

    What happens now?

    #2
    before or after cards are turned?
    http://mobro.co/zuroph
    donate to my hairy lip!

    Comment


      #3
      There has been significant action after a mistake has been made, so the action stands as it is. Flush wins the pot.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by TM2204 View Post
        Flop comes down, 2 players, bet & call.

        Turn hits putting 4 to a flush, player A bets & player B calls.

        River completes flush, player A insta-shoves, player B calls.

        It's then discovered that the burn card before the river was dealt was not burned i.e. the river card dealt is the burn card.

        What happens now?
        If the players hands are not revealed take back the river action, deal the river and open the betting as normal.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
          If the players hands are not revealed take back the river action, deal the river and open the betting as normal.
          ^^ Is what happened but player 1 argued that his hand was, effectively, turned face up (flush) by his actions and that taking back the river bets & re-dealing the river was a huge disadvantage to him.

          As it turned out the 'new' river was also a spade but the 10 spades giving player 2 a house!!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by zuroph View Post
            before or after cards are turned?
            Before the hole cards were turned but after the betting action.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by TM2204 View Post
              Flop comes down, 2 players, bet & call.

              Turn hits putting 4 to a flush, player A bets & player B calls.

              River completes flush, player A insta-shoves, player B calls.

              It's then discovered that the burn card before the river was dealt was not burned i.e. the river card dealt is the burn card.

              What happens now?
              Originally posted by TM2204
              As it turned out the 'new' river was also a spade but the 10 spades giving player 2 a house!!
              If the turn put a 4 to a flush, and then the river completes the flush, surely a redeal on the river and another spade coming out could not complete a full house????

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by AKDonk View Post
                If the turn put a 4 to a flush, and then the river completes the flush, surely a redeal on the river and another spade coming out could not complete a full house????
                Explained that wrong; the turn put 2 spades on the board. 4 to a flush with a holding of 2 spades.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                  If the players hands are not revealed take back the river action, deal the river and open the betting as normal.


                  wot he said

                  Kamal

                  particularly if the hands have not been exposed

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by TM2204 View Post
                    ^^ Is what happened but player 1 argued that his hand was, effectively, turned face up (flush) by his actions and that taking back the river bets & re-dealing the river was a huge disadvantage to him.

                    As it turned out the 'new' river was also a spade but the 10 spades giving player 2 a house!!


                    I bet he argued after he saw he was beaten.

                    His hand wasn't turned face up by his actions. His opponent would have to put him on a backdoor flush. What way did the action go on the 2nd river?
                    Last edited by gorrrr72; 16-03-10, 01:07.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post


                      I bet he argued after he saw he was beaten.

                      His hand wasn't turned face up by his actions. His opponent would have to put him on a backdoor flush. What way did the action go on the 2nd river?
                      It didn't.

                      Player 1 was so disgusted at the decision he fucked his cards into the muck (before the river was dealt) & stormed off to cool down

                      I'd imagine they would have gotten it all-in though
                      Last edited by TM2204; 16-03-10, 09:28.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by TM2204 View Post
                        It didn't.

                        Player 1 was so disgusted at the decision he fucked his cards into the muck (before the river was dealt) & stormed off to cool down

                        I'd imagine they would have gotten it all-in though
                        Lol, that's a bit extreme. I think you could be certain that it was going in the middle anyway. If he is betting a pair and backdoor FD and hits on the river even when it pairs the board I don't think anyone folds.

                        The mistake was unfortunate but the ruling was correct.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          This is porbably a strange view on things but what I think should happen is the betting action that took place on the false river should be counted back and returned to all players involved, the pot frozen from any more action taken place, the true river being dealt and showdown.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Flop comes down, 2 players, bet & call. Turn hits putting 4 to a flush, player A bets & player B calls. River completes flush, player A insta-s

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Donkathon View Post
                              This is porbably a strange view on things but what I think should happen is the betting action that took place on the false river should be counted back and returned to all players involved, the pot frozen from any more action taken place, the true river being dealt and showdown.
                              TD's differ, winners become losers and vice versa, you have to be there, in the moment

                              the key to good decisions is CONSISTANCY & FAIR PLAY
                              make every decision consistant with the same situation and decision you made the last time and so on,

                              ps, sounds like a fair comprimise, particularly when it was dealer error

                              Kamal

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by kamal al jabar View Post
                                TD's differ, winners become losers and vice versa, you have to be there, in the moment

                                the key to good decisions is CONSISTANCY & FAIR PLAY
                                make every decision consistant with the same situation and decision you made the last time and so on,

                                ps, sounds like a fair comprimise, particularly when it was dealer error

                                Kamal
                                Thanks Derek...

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by kamal al jabar View Post
                                  TD's differ, winners become losers and vice versa, you have to be there, in the moment

                                  the key to good decisions is CONSISTANCY & FAIR PLAY
                                  make every decision consistant with the same situation and decision you made the last time and so on,

                                  ps, sounds like a fair comprimise, particularly when it was dealer error

                                  Kamal
                                  Being a TD requires you to know the rules of poker. I agree that consistancy is key and fair play is essencial. It's obvious to those who make rulings day in day out that when there has been significant action (2 actions) after a mistake has been made, then that mistake stands, it's the easiest and fairest way of sorting out problems.
                                  How would it be fair for the guy with the flush to be punished here? He got all the money in vs a weaker hand in good faith that there was no mistake. His opponent also called the bet in good faith that there was no mistake. Why is there an issue? If the player that is losing makes an issue here, we could call him a nit, and even go close to accusing him of angle shooting, as he's trying to win a pot on a technicality.

                                  Look at it like this, it's what they do in Vegas, they know best.

                                  Why should there be a different outcome here? Why should the river card be changed? Because it's not the right card is not a far reaching enough answer.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    The movie lucky you, was looking for the scene on youtube but cant find it now

                                    no burn card there, the river was pulled back and re-dealt.

                                    &

                                    Dealer error pulling in an all in's cards, dealer error but still punished via a min raise/call and the rest returned.

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