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    Killarney ruling

    I questioned a dealer in the Killarney €150 tournament on Sunday. Two players bet the early streets (pre-flop; flop; turn) and then both players checked the river. Then one player mucked his hand and the other was awarded the pot and also mucked his hand. I asked to see the winning hand. The dealer said he did not have to show, and a passing floor person said the dealer was correct, this ruling was agreed by the organisers pre-tournament. I was not in the hand at any stage.

    In the Fitzwilliam a few years ago I was in a similar situation (but not exactly the same). On the river a Northern Ireland player bet 2,500, I called, and he threw his hand into the muck. I asked was his hand mucked. The dealer said it was. I asked did I have to show. I was told I had to show. I showed AK for ace high and collected. In my case there was action on the river.

    I will now give an example of why I think the Killarney ruling was wrong. My ficticious characters and situation will show an unacceptable situation that this rule allows.

    John and Jim Z, identical twins, are on the same table in the Killarney €550 Main Event.

    John has 2,100,000 chips, Jim has 31,000 chips. There are 66 players left, 64 are paid. The other players on their table have 40k to 60k chips each.
    John Z opens for 30,000, all fold except Jim Z, who calls for 30,000, leaving 1,000 behind. They check it down. Then John Z mucks his hand and Jim Z collects the pot of 60,000 increasing his stack to 61,000.
    In the next hand John Z bets 60,000 and again Jim Z calls. They check it down again, and again John Z mucks his hand. Jim Z collects the pot and now has 121,000.
    For a laugh they do it again. Jim's stack goes up to 241,000.
    John Z and Jim Z now make the money as players are knocked out in 66th and 65th place.

    You might say the TD would take action against them for soft-playing. Would he take action because they are related? With this ruling in place how can the TD / dealer spot team-playing. I'll guess most players did not know this ruling applies in the Ladbrokes. If every player knew would this play become commonplace on the bubble?

    #2
    The same scenario happened on my table in Killarney and someone pointed out to one of the TDs that this could lead to chip dumping. The TD said that if anyone suspected chip dumping then he would check the cards...

    Comment


      #3
      I was dealing in Killarney and we were told in the dealer meeting that if this happened the cards didnt have to be shown.It depends where you are playing and whether they play "last man standing" rule which is where the last player left in the hand receives the pot and doesnt have to show because hes the last eligable player to claim it.

      A good few places use this rule i think.

      Comment


        #4
        Robert's Rules Of Poker

        THE SHOWDOWN

        1. To win any part of a pot, a player must show all of his cards faceup on the table, whether they were used in the final hand played or not.

        5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that was eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

        8. If everyone checks (or is all-in) on the final betting round, the player who acted first is the first to show the hand. If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand. In order to speed up the game, a player holding a probable winner is encouraged to show the hand without delay. If there are one or more side pots (because someone is all-in), players are asked to aid in determining the pot winner by not showing their cards until a pot they are in is being settled. A player may opt to throw his hand away after all the betting for the deal is over, rather than compete to win the pot. However, the other players do not lose the right to request the hand be shown if he does so.

        Comment


          #5
          when will players accept the fact that there are no standard set of rules for poker & different houses have different rules.

          If chip dumping is suspected the TD can / will act to prevent

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by kincsem View Post
            THE SHOWDOWN

            1. To win any part of a pot, a player must show all of his cards faceup on the table, whether they were used in the final hand played or not.

            5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that was eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

            8. If everyone checks (or is all-in) on the final betting round, the player who acted first is the first to show the hand. If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand. In order to speed up the game, a player holding a probable winner is encouraged to show the hand without delay. If there are one or more side pots (because someone is all-in), players are asked to aid in determining the pot winner by not showing their cards until a pot they are in is being settled. A player may opt to throw his hand away after all the betting for the deal is over, rather than compete to win the pot. However, the other players do not lose the right to request the hand be shown if he does so.
            These rules were not in place at the weekend. I also don't use the above rule.

            In know the UKIPT and EPT also have the last man standing rule.
            €10,000 GTD New Monthly Tournament
            Village Green Card Club, Last Thursday of the Month, €270 Freezeout
            €1,000,000 GTD - Irish Open
            CityWest Hotel, 6th-13th April

            Comment


              #7
              This was questioned at least twice while I played, each time it was last man standing so no cards need to be shown.

              Comment


                #8
                If any player suspects collusion the Td will check ! Last man standing rule was fine all weekend and every year as it has been ! The rules were on view for all to see and copies were at the Td desk at all times to read ! Again players had problems with them as they do with other rules but when u are under our roof playing poker it's our house rules that you obey by !

                Regards

                Neill k
                www.pokerinthepub.ie
                www.bigslickevents.net
                www.casinonightsireland.com
                www.thevenuetramore.com

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