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Old 03-08-10, 12:23   #1
White Knight
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Fitz EOM 270 MTT- Preflop Pair

What is your move?

Rough chip counts
UTG 5,100
UTG+1 14,000
UTG+2 20,000
Button 16,000

Blinds 200/400 25 ante

Action
UTG raises to 1,200
UTG+1 thinks and calls 1,200
UTG+2 thinks and raises to 3,750 (or 4,250 not entirely sure as a guy with a few drinks was distracting me from the exact amount)

Reads and possible ranges
UTG - Tight enough player with small stack. Loosens up when gets chips. Pair 6+ plus AJs+
UTG+1 - Regular fitz player on the good side of average. Calling range in this position would be any pair/suited Ace/Ace good kicker
UTG+2 - Good Lag, probably best player at the table but only joined the table less than an orbit and already took a 5k pot off me when I had 6s and he continuation bet a J52 flop which I called and he fired again on a Q turn. Range - honestly (imo) any 2 cards


JJ on the button - fold/call/raise? - What is your move?
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Old 03-08-10, 12:30   #2
Bubbleking
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I fold and be pretty happy about it tbh
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Old 03-08-10, 12:33   #3
ShakinDIT
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I think it's raise or fold here in this spot.

If raising, I would see it as a push preflop - I don't really see benefit of making it for example 10k to go leaving yourself 6k behind...

However, I think JJ is a fold in this spot, with a shortstacked UTG and also UTG+1 still to act behind you.

I don't think I could lay down QQ here, though.
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Old 03-08-10, 13:01   #4
Wesley Harms
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Shove.
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Old 03-08-10, 13:10   #5
NuckChorris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
JJ on the button - fold/call/raise? - What is your move?
You can't call here regardless of the player description as you leave the hand wide open to a shove from either of UTG and UTG+1. I can see some arguement for a shove here given your descriptions of the players but it's still a raise UTG and a 3 bet in early position so I couldn't see myself shoving here. I agree with BK and fold this spot.

If you could somehow forecast an UTG or UTG+1 shove with any pair or big ace then possibly you could call hoping that he gets it in light to steal given the pot size, but that's extremely player dependent, and you'd still have to be prepared to call should the 3-better call the shove, so I just don't see it.
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Old 03-08-10, 13:13   #6
Reaps
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A tricky hand. With 40 BB left behind you may be as well waiting for a better spot.

If I was UTG+2 I would not raise here light after beating you in a recent pot and with UTG shortstacked it's less likely he'll win this hand without a showdown.

I can see UTG+2 playing the hand this way with premium holdings of AA KK and QQ. It's the type of spot a LAG really benefits from his image and if he is good as you say he is he might just be trying to tempt you into a tilt shove.

I'd tank fold, you should get plenty more oppourtunites to snap off UTG+2 raises so I'd pass on this spot.
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Old 03-08-10, 13:19   #7
Wombatman
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Shove based on player info.
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Last edited by Wombatman; 03-08-10 at 13:22.
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Old 03-08-10, 13:56   #8
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If your reads are correct then I shove.
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Old 03-08-10, 14:04   #9
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If UTG+2 is good I fold, because he should know that it's very unlikely that UTG is opening to 3x and folding when he has only got 13bbs, and he should therefore have a very tight range.

If UTG+2's range is actually any 2, then I would assume that he isn't actually any good and is just overly spewy. This is a terrible spot to squeeze light for him.
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Old 03-08-10, 14:22   #10
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I fold also. The shortie is almost certainly committed(infact if he folded ANYTHING here it would be awful). UTG+2 should know this and should have a pretty strong hand here. I fold and feel good about it.
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Old 03-08-10, 14:31   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moneymaker View Post
I fold also. The shortie is almost certainly committed(infact if he folded ANYTHING here it would be awful). UTG+2 should know this and should have a pretty strong hand here. I fold and feel good about it.
Pretty much this. I would have given UTG a tighter range than you suggest there altho i hadn't been at the table too long then. I wouldnt worry about UTG+1 cos your ahead of him all day long, UTG+2 is a very good player so i would be surprised if he was repopping here with a weakish hand given UTG's stack. I was pretty surprised you had JJ in that spot
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Old 03-08-10, 14:37   #12
White Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface ste View Post
Pretty much this. I would have given UTG a tighter range than you suggest there altho i hadn't been at the table too long then. I wouldnt worry about UTG+1 cos your ahead of him all day long, UTG+2 is a very good player so i would be surprised if he was repopping here with a weakish hand given UTG's stack. I was pretty surprised you had JJ in that spot
You may be right with the UTG tighter range - I was basing it on the play afterwards really - which may be a mistake. I know UTG+2 is a good player and posts here and was hoping to hear his side at some stage. Be interested to hear a few more views if any ...
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Old 03-08-10, 14:43   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
You may be right with the UTG tighter range - I was basing it on the play afterwards really - which may be a mistake. I know UTG+2 is a good player and posts here and was hoping to hear his side at some stage. Be interested to hear a few more views if any ...
She definately got way looser with the bigger stack, or I percieved her to be playing looser anyway altho she didnt get to many showdowns. But when i joined table first i thought she was rocking it up.

PM him there for a response
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Old 03-08-10, 14:52   #14
White Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface ste View Post
She definately got way looser with the bigger stack, or I percieved her to be playing looser anyway altho she didnt get to many showdowns. But when i joined table first i thought she was rocking it up.

PM him there for a response
By the way I had AKs and then KK the two times I came over your raises - and then the sick setup of 10s > Qs!
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Old 03-08-10, 15:00   #15
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Quote:
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By the way I had AKs and then KK the two times I came over your raises - and then the sick setup of 10s > Qs!
I wasn't even going to mention it!! I had garbage both times Dwelled up for effect obviously altho after that i decided if you did it again i was going all in, fuck it
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Old 03-08-10, 16:54   #16
AndyFatBastard
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I'm happy shoving here. Shorty UTG has a ton of smaller pairs and AK/AQ in his range that we're either dominating or delighted to be flipping with. UTG+1 is almost certainly folding to a squeeze. UTG+2 knows this and he's taking the opportunity to isolate the shorty.

But the most important thing is that we've got tons of fold equity. When we shove, UTG+2 has to seriously consider folding AK and even QQ because our hand looks so strong. So then we're heads up all in against UTG with a ton of extra chips in the middle and should feel very good about it.

If UTG+2 turns up with a better hand or finds a call with AK and hits, well c'est la poker.
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Old 04-08-10, 12:42   #17
Norwichfanrob
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this is a definite fold if u consider the utg player and/or utg+2 re raiser to be anyway competent at all.
he/she should never be re raising an utg raise from utg+2 from someone who has 13 bigs and has opened for 1/4 of their stack here without a range of hands that JJ plays badly against....
additonal, with 20% of his stack in the middle pre (inc antes), utg should never ever be opening any hand here hes not trying to get all in with.

Last edited by Norwichfanrob; 04-08-10 at 12:45.
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