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continuing range vs SB 3 bets

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    continuing range vs SB 3 bets

    Live tourney, $580 6-max (in case relevant this is in the US where I now reside)

    Two pretty similar hands and wonder what our get-it in range should look like in either spot and where medium pairs fit in that range?

    Hand 1:
    blinds 200-400 ante 50
    Hero raises cut-off to 900 with 88 playing 25k
    SB raises to 3k playing approx. 10k
    Hero??

    I'd only been at the table 2 orbits but SB seemed pretty fishy - we played 1 hand together thus far in which he limped q9 off UTG, I isolated with T8s and got three streets on QT8xx

    I think the SB is pretty much always looking to get it in here (?), but he did seem to be a bit tilty too (he lost another spazzy pot after the hand described above to another player) which could make him a bit wider than expected...

    I pretty much discounted calling so thought it was a case of go with it or not? There was approx. 120ish players left at this stage with 24 paid so relatively early days

    Hand 2 (Same tourney, 7- handed unofficial FT.):
    Blinds 6000-12000 w 2000 ante
    Hero opens UTG+1 to 25k with 77, playing 250k
    SB raises to 70k playing 300k
    Hero??
    This was somewhat different since everyone seemed pretty solid and aggressive but somehow the SB was the only player had not played with at until the FT and this was the 2nd orbit...but he was a young pro who seemed competent.

    Payjump from 7th to 6th is $1k. All stacks are pretty condensed from around 180k to 450k so we're likely 5/7 and he's 3 or 4 of 7

    Cheers

    #2
    These hands are really player and read dependant. Given info and awkward stack sizes I prob reluctantly fold both but vs some players, you can shove both spots with massive fold equity. Sizing in hand 1 from a fish looks strong, as one might expect big aces to ship with that stack.
    Last edited by colm_leche; 23-10-15, 22:34. Reason: Spelling

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      #3
      1) without info I fold vs that size/stack.
      2) also fold (I may not even open at times).

      But I am a bit of a nit
      "Poker isn’t about default strategies, it’s about exploiting your opponent's bad tendencies"

      Comment


        #4
        hand 1 just fold cos lol live players just have it here all the time. only other option is jam, flatting is pretty bad this shallow even in position with his SPR thats gonna be about 1 he's gonna jam like close to every flop.

        hand 2 fold pre you're just gonna get icm fucked by anyone at the table who has a clue especially if there is a few shorter stacks than you on the table and even more if you're opening into the big stacks on the table, which im presuming you are given you're utg+1

        Edit: first hand i prob dont fold TT+ AQ+ and second hand im opening a pretty polarized range in that with hands im prob going with.
        Last edited by chips1234; 24-10-15, 00:16.

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          #5
          Hand 2 if your folding to 3bet are you just mucking it preflop?

          Comment


            #6
            Hand 1: I folded and feel pretty happy with it - even if he's occasionally spazzing he'll have KJs or A9 and call it off anyway so think fold is fine here...

            Hand 2: I folded. As played think I should have stuck it in, there was a lot of opening / 3 betting going on (we were 7 handed) so think I have a decent amount of fold equity if I rip and am flipping a decent chunk of time too. All that said I agree just folding pre seems preferable in hindsight.

            WRT ICM - if we are 5/7 but the two shorter stacks are only a 3-5 BB shorter, does it really matter so much if they are not the villain, or does simply having more make all the difference regardless?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Kie Diddy View Post
              Hand 1: I folded and feel pretty happy with it - even if he's occasionally spazzing he'll have KJs or A9 and call it off anyway so think fold is fine here...

              Hand 2: I folded. As played think I should have stuck it in, there was a lot of opening / 3 betting going on (we were 7 handed) so think I have a decent amount of fold equity if I rip and am flipping a decent chunk of time too. All that said I agree just folding pre seems preferable in hindsight.

              WRT ICM - if we are 5/7 but the two shorter stacks are only a 3-5 BB shorter, does it really matter so much if they are not the villain, or does simply having more make all the difference regardless?
              would really depend on the payouts too, but yes it does matter, you doubling any of the shorter stacks lightly or letting them chip up v you is obv terrible , you would want to be stealing from the middle stacks etc that if they double you it puts them as short stack so they will be playing tighter ranges v you or at least they should if they understand icm. if you can find doke's wsop 2nd place anywhere online watch it, its a masterclass of icm play while short stacked on an FT imo.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by chips1234 View Post
                would really depend on the payouts too, but yes it does matter, you doubling any of the shorter stacks lightly or letting them chip up v you is obv terrible , you would want to be stealing from the middle stacks etc that if they double you it puts them as short stack so they will be playing tighter ranges v you or at least they should if they understand icm. if you can find doke's wsop 2nd place anywhere online watch it, its a masterclass of icm play while short stacked on an FT imo.
                Im watching it on youtube and at 1;22:30 de Silva(86bb) in the CO min raises and then doke(14bb) shoves with 87s.Is this standard icm play,shoving into a huge stack? De silva was raising a lot though.

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