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    Dealer protocol - all in

    Just wondering if there is an official way to do this or if not what everyone thinks.

    Live NL cash game. Flop is dealt. 2 players. €500 in pot. Player A bets €400. Player B goes all in and pushes all chips over line.

    So should the dealer now:

    a) Announce all in and do no more unless asked by the other player.
    b) Count the all in and give player A the total.
    c) Cut 400 from the all in and put it in the middle with the 400 from player A and announce the amount of the raise.

    I have seen all of the above done by different dealers over the years and it can affect a players decision which way they do it. So which is right?

    #2
    Originally posted by Wolves View Post

    So should the dealer now:

    a) Announce all in and do no more unless asked by the other player.
    b) Count the all in and give player A the total.
    c) Cut 400 from the all in and put it in the middle with the 400 from player A and announce the amount of the raise.

    I have seen all of the above done by different dealers over the years and it can affect a players decision which way they do it. So which is right?
    None are wrong. House rules and dealer instruction will dictate what happens.

    For what it's worth, the dealer should do his/her best to keep the game moving and will know depending on the player and chip stacks which is necessary.
    May you live in interesting times!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Wolves View Post
      Just wondering if there is an official way to do this or if not what everyone thinks.

      Live NL cash game. Flop is dealt. 2 players. €500 in pot. Player A bets €400. Player B goes all in and pushes all chips over line.

      So should the dealer now:

      a) Announce all in and do no more unless asked by the other player.
      b) Count the all in and give player A the total.
      c) Cut 400 from the all in and put it in the middle with the 400 from player A and announce the amount of the raise.

      I have seen all of the above done by different dealers over the years and it can affect a players decision which way they do it. So which is right?
      I would suggest A. There is a school of thought that suggests a dealer may influence a decision for a player by counting and saying how much is left to call. In your example, player B may have only €600 all in, if player A were to be told this he would almost certainly have to call however if the dealer says nothing player A is not influenced at all.

      Although as bp_me says all 3 are ok
      ProNutz Poker.com

      Comment


        #4
        There is a school of thought that suggests a dealer may influence a decision for a player by counting and saying how much is left to call
        I have often seen and heard dealers use certain words and a tone of voice to influence a players decisions e.g.: "only 3,000 more to call".

        I'd announce the all-in, match the original bet and move the chips into the pot leaving the difference in clear sight for the player left to act to see. If a player asks how much is left, it's usually directed to the other player and I find that most opponents will usually give an honest answer meaning the dealer doesn't have to interfere. If the opponent is lying eg: "500 more", when really they have 100, then I'd interfere and give the correct count to the other player.

        Comment


          #5
          A
          Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

          Comment


            #6
            As said above, house rules apply.

            Comment


              #7
              People have a right to know what the bet into them is. Punch the dealer if they use the word "only".

              Comment


                #8
                So thats how you got your black eyes. Oscar

                Comment


                  #9
                  while i would never condone punching a dealer. I am inclined to allow it in certain circumstances

                  there is nuthin more maddening then a dealer getting involved in play, a major NO-NO

                  the answer here is clearly "A"

                  once the player pushes his chips over the line in a forward motion, or says "all in"
                  the dealer should remain silent and motionless
                  unless the possible caller hasnt seen the bet
                  in which case the only words spoken by the dealer are "player all-in"

                  unless the possible caller asks how much is it or how much more is that to me, then the dealer should not volunteer the information

                  sometimes a large looking all in bet could have loads of small denomination chips and look like a big bet when in fact it may only be a small amount more to call

                  if a dealer offers the info in that case, then player making the bet should reach out and smack the dealer, harshly or wrap an orange in a damp cloth and slam it against the side of the body of the dealer, preferably in the kidneys

                  this will leave only poeripheral marking but will be painful for days, reminding the dealer of his stupidity and errorful ways

                  the answer is and will always be A

                  Kamal

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Dealer should try to keep the game flowing...

                    Match the 400s & add them to the pot, make sure Mr All In's chips are visible then say "call or fold"

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by kamal al jabar View Post
                      while i would never condone punching a dealer. I am inclined to allow it in certain circumstances

                      there is nuthin more maddening then a dealer getting involved in play, a major NO-NO

                      the answer here is clearly "A"

                      once the player pushes his chips over the line in a forward motion, or says "all in"
                      the dealer should remain silent and motionless
                      unless the possible caller hasnt seen the bet
                      in which case the only words spoken by the dealer are "player all-in"

                      unless the possible caller asks how much is it or how much more is that to me, then the dealer should not volunteer the information

                      sometimes a large looking all in bet could have loads of small denomination chips and look like a big bet when in fact it may only be a small amount more to call

                      if a dealer offers the info in that case, then player making the bet should reach out and smack the dealer, harshly or wrap an orange in a damp cloth and slam it against the side of the body of the dealer, preferably in the kidneys

                      this will leave only poeripheral marking but will be painful for days, reminding the dealer of his stupidity and errorful ways

                      the answer is and will always be A

                      Kamal
                      This is that age old debate.

                      If a player pushes 95% of his chips in, the dealer will announce the bet, so should do for a normal bet too. If the dealer is competent, counting should not take too long.

                      It makes no difference to me personally as I have a good eye for counting a stack quickly and if it matters I can ask for an exact count. Not counting seems to inordinately punish the novice players more than the more experienced though, and this isn't sometihng that should be encouraged imo.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by kamal al jabar View Post

                        the answer is and will always be B

                        Kamal
                        FYP

                        Comment


                          #13
                          im a dealer and if that happens i count the all in and declare the TOTAL amount of the all in,if the players asks how much more then i tell him but i would always call the total not how much on top because in my oppinion as a player i know saying how much ontop would prob influance my decision so best to be fair to all parties

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by kamal al jabar View Post
                            while i would never condone punching a dealer. I am inclined to allow it in certain circumstances

                            there is nuthin more maddening then a dealer getting involved in play, a major NO-NO

                            the answer here is clearly "A"

                            once the player pushes his chips over the line in a forward motion, or says "all in"
                            the dealer should remain silent and motionless
                            unless the possible caller hasnt seen the bet
                            in which case the only words spoken by the dealer are "player all-in"

                            unless the possible caller asks how much is it or how much more is that to me, then the dealer should not volunteer the information

                            sometimes a large looking all in bet could have loads of small denomination chips and look like a big bet when in fact it may only be a small amount more to call

                            if a dealer offers the info in that case, then player making the bet should reach out and smack the dealer, harshly or wrap an orange in a damp cloth and slam it against the side of the body of the dealer, preferably in the kidneys

                            this will leave only poeripheral marking but will be painful for days, reminding the dealer of his stupidity and errorful ways

                            the answer is and will always be A

                            Kamal
                            WHAT!!!!!!!!!!! the dealer HAS to count it! lol,the dealer wont just leave the chips that the guy has pushed in just sitting there! the dealer will always count the chips,THATS WHAT THEYRE THERE FOR

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by liz:) View Post
                              WHAT!!!!!!!!!!! the dealer HAS to count it! lol,the dealer wont just leave the chips that the guy has pushed in just sitting there! the dealer will always count the chips,THATS WHAT THEYRE THERE FOR
                              Perhaps they should, but they don't. It is quite common for them not to, especially at the festival events around Ireland.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Got in trouble for this before while dealing, player 1 went all in and player 2 considers for a wee while then says to player 1 'how much is your all in Brian?'

                                I had it counted and stacked neatly by then but hadn't announced the total. So when he asked I said 'X thousand in total'.
                                To which I got 'I fucking asked him, not fucking you knob end!'

                                He fancied he could get some kind of read or tell from the way Brian would have answered the question before my interferance. Can't do right for doing wrong sometimes.

                                I would have said A though.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  I understood that you should count it in a cash game and not do anything in a tourney until asked how much.
                                  The reason you count it in a cash game is so the game flows better, and as the move isn't as important as it is in a tournament (you can simply re-load) you would just let the players know the total immediately.
                                  In a tournament, it's better not to count it so there is more chance the move will 'get through'. Effectively you are giving the all-in player the added chance that his opponents may make a mistake in the counting, which could lead to a call or fold mistake. I understand that this is how many proffessional players wish it.
                                  There was an interesting discussion on this issue a few months back on boards.ie. . .
                                  GL,
                                  C
                                  Last edited by curleywurley; 10-03-10, 11:56.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Dealers should just announce the action. in all situations all in or otherwise.
                                    ie raise, call or fold.
                                    players are entitled to know what a bet is, which is why they may ask the dealer for a count when it is their turn.
                                    dealers should not count bets with out being directly asked, or respond to questions about the bet or other actions unless they are from the in turn players.
                                    this is to keep any influence to a minimum from the dealer or players waiting to act. and also to speed up the action by not counting bets when it is not necessary.
                                    when asked a dealer should count the bet and give a total amount, displaying the chips so that they can be easily read by the players and floorpeople.
                                    dealers should always have a minimum impact on the game, so by only counting bets when asked, only referring to bets in totals and only responding to in turn requests they will have less of an impact over the outcome of the game.
                                    dealers can repeat the actions of the player. ie if the player puts a legal raise without speaking then the dealer should announce 'raise' if it is all in then they should announce 'all in' if the player say a total they would like to raise to then the dealer may also announce the total 'i raise to 500' then the dealer can announce 'raise; 500'
                                    Last edited by thegreatiam; 11-03-10, 04:04.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Bless You View Post
                                      Got in trouble for this before while dealing, player 1 went all in and player 2 considers for a wee while then says to player 1 'how much is your all in Brian?'

                                      I had it counted and stacked neatly by then but hadn't announced the total. So when he asked I said 'X thousand in total'.
                                      To which I got 'I fucking asked him, not fucking you knob end!'

                                      He fancied he could get some kind of read or tell from the way Brian would have answered the question before my interferance. Can't do right for doing wrong sometimes.

                                      I would have said A though.
                                      LOL

                                      unfortunately some players can take out their frustration on dealers and its never nice

                                      years back I made an all in bet against Donncha O'Dea in the eccentrics club and Terry Rogers was dealing
                                      Terry said,
                                      thats an awful big pot for a small reraise!
                                      I couldnt believe my ears, naturally Donncha called, thanking Terry

                                      the other players were shocked at Terry and voiced their opinion
                                      1 player said, if you ever do that to me while i am waiting for a caller to fold, i will actually shoot you

                                      I met terry the following day and he apologised, putting me free into another tournie
                                      he was big enough to know he was totally wrong and admit it

                                      a spur of the moment thing that cost me a fair bit, when £100 was more than a weeks wages

                                      the answer is always A
                                      Kamal

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by kamal al jabar View Post
                                        LOL

                                        unfortunately some players can take out their frustration on dealers and its never nice

                                        years back I made an all in bet against Donncha O'Dea in the eccentrics club and Terry Rogers was dealing
                                        Terry said,
                                        thats an awful big pot for a small reraise!
                                        I couldnt believe my ears, naturally Donncha called, thanking Terry

                                        the other players were shocked at Terry and voiced their opinion
                                        1 player said, if you ever do that to me while i am waiting for a caller to fold, i will actually shoot you

                                        I met terry the following day and he apologised, putting me free into another tournie
                                        he was big enough to know he was totally wrong and admit it

                                        a spur of the moment thing that cost me a fair bit, when £100 was more than a weeks wages

                                        the answer is always A
                                        Kamal
                                        The eccentrics club , Now that would definately suit you

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Bless You View Post
                                          Got in trouble for this before while dealing, player 1 went all in and player 2 considers for a wee while then says to player 1 'how much is your all in Brian?'

                                          I had it counted and stacked neatly by then but hadn't announced the total. So when he asked I said 'X thousand in total'.
                                          To which I got 'I fucking asked him, not fucking you knob end!'

                                          He fancied he could get some kind of read or tell from the way Brian would have answered the question before my interferance. Can't do right for doing wrong sometimes.

                                          I would have said A though.

                                          I would most definately call the floor to the table, explain whats happened, and fully expect "mr knob-end" himself to be given a time penalty from the table. Players who treat dealers like that should be punished heavily (maybe locked in a room with DAMO for a half hour).

                                          I said before, and I'll say it again, just because a player reshoves his stack in with a huge amount of small chips, is not a reason why his opponnent shouldnt know how much the bet it. saying the opponnent might fold because he doesnt know how much the bet is, is plainly a huge advantage for the experienced player over the non experienced player. I like it when a player bets, and a player reraises all-in, the dealer takes out the amount matching the original bet, and then the player can see for himself (or ask if he so wishes), how much the reraise is.

                                          Connie

                                          edit-- C, but dont announce the amount of the r/r unless asked.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            the problem is, players will generally wait for the dealer to finish counting before they fold. so in order to remove any unnecessary waiting time then the dealer should only count upon request.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Just read a similar thread over on 2+2 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27...nt-pot-734573/
                                              The yankees are saying they never count the pot, in Tournament or Cash.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by curleywurley View Post
                                                Just read a similar thread over on 2+2 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27...nt-pot-734573/
                                                The yankees are saying they never count the pot, in Tournament or Cash.
                                                You NEVER count the pot in a no limit game. This is standard.

                                                We are talking about counting an all-in bet.
                                                May you live in interesting times!

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  i have seen players ask for a count or even ask, how much is in that pot

                                                  the dealer may spread the chips so that a player may count them pot, but should NEVER ever count it for a player, except in a pot limit game, in which the dealer should know how much the pot is

                                                  i prefer A

                                                  next time i meet Thomas Kremser or JP McCann, I will ask their professional opinion on this one

                                                  ref hitting a dealer or even abusing verbally, time penalty for at least 1 round of the table, and for 2nd offence, at least 3 rounds, maybe even a ban, after all, the dealer is only doing his job, in this particular instance, trying to be helpful

                                                  Kamal

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