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Old 11-01-19, 11:12   #47341
RichieM
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I'm all in favour of this fake meat revolution. I think it was Downtown who came out with the line on here years ago that 'we're on the wrong side of history on the eating meat thing'. It always stuck with me as obviously true despite the fact that I have made no steps to change my behaviour.

Once they start making it simple to change with things like fake burgers that taste alright (they don't have to bleed, wtf is that all about) I think you will see a big swong away from meat based on both moral and environmental stances. I think it might happen quite quickly as well.
I still can’t see it becoming a widespread moral issue. Overtime growing meat will become more cost effective and require less space so that’s what the masses will eat.
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Old 11-01-19, 11:29   #47342
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Boy/Girl if the crazies get their way.
Saw the term "cisgender" yesterday for the first time (thanks to the clicking on the nutjob Hitch got in a twitter spat with). Seems insane to have a term for someone actually associating with the gender the were born. And then I have to worry that I'm prejudiced for thinking that!
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Old 11-01-19, 12:21   #47343
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Saw the term "cisgender" yesterday for the first time (thanks to the clicking on the nutjob Hitch got in a twitter spat with). Seems insane to have a term for someone actually associating with the gender the were born. And then I have to worry that I'm prejudiced for thinking that!
Wait until you discover the term 'digital blackface'

Came across it the other day. It's no longer acceptable for a white person to tweet a gif of a black person.

The best reply was 'This is why people hate liberals, and I am one.'
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Old 11-01-19, 12:26   #47344
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Perfect contraception would see population growth go immediately into reverse .
There'd be a whole other set of problems within a generation
Are you implying we're mostly mistakes?
We can't simultaneously be worried about there being fewer jobs and also worried about there being fewer people?
It's a good set of problems, population should come down.
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Old 11-01-19, 12:32   #47345
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I have absolutely no shread of guilt, not the slightest pang, when it comes to eating meat.

I really can't ever see that changing as long as I live.
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Old 11-01-19, 12:35   #47346
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane View Post
Are you implying we're mostly mistakes?
We can't simultaneously be worried about there being fewer jobs and also worried about there being fewer people?
It's a good set of problems, population should come down.
It will continue to grow globally until we're all dead but assuming that countries in extreme poverty and perhaps a step above that level continue to climb out of poverty, the global population will level off and then decrease.

Everyone will be more well off in an absolute sense so that what is deemed extreme poverty now largely won't exist which is one of the primary drivers of population growth, that said, I assume wealth inequality will continue to increase which is a different issue entirely.
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Old 11-01-19, 12:48   #47347
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I haven't read it yet but it's on the list, Peter Singer who was one of the pioneers of animal ethics at least in bringing it to the masses has a book that's apparently good on various ethical issues that are very applicable currently:

I like his books, I love how controversial he is with some things and doesn't give a fuck. Especially when talking about infanticide and disabled people, man that gets people boiling. He also shows great awareness for pragmatism in ethics based on current social norms. Last book I read of his was "The Most Good You Can Do: How Effective Altruism Is Changing Ideas About Living Ethically", quite good even if he talks about himself a lot.


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Yeah I often try to think about what's normal now that will look crazy, what's going to be our version of old people calling people golliwogs. It's kinda funny too people who rightly look back in horror at the normality of segregation also seem to believe we've reached the pinnacle of morality, and nothing will change from here, despite all the prior history.

Meat is the easy one. When we've perfect effortless contraception, both sides of the abortion debate will look horrific to everyone. Probably how we deal with criminality too. It's inevitable there's things that we won't even think of.
We are just the most advanced brutes there are so far, the same people that go along with cultural norms are the ones that would have been grand with slavery, they just don't view themselves like that. The reason slavery was so hard fought against by some and not others? Involvement. Behaviour affects attitude. If you take part in something you view it as more right - you justify it. If you don't take part it's easier to slam it. Even so, at the time the idea that the Afro-Americans should have the same rights as white citizens appalled even people who regarded slavery as an abomination.

Ethics are most often born of surrounding and circumstance, and to make a leap from A moral position to large gap B moral position there are innumerable moral improvements over time, to where B seems right all along, from it's initial preposterous stance at the time of A. People that believe in B at the point in A seem crazy.


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I'm all in favour of this fake meat revolution. I think it was Downtown who came out with the line on here years ago that 'we're on the wrong side of history on the eating meat thing'. It always stuck with me as obviously true despite the fact that I have made no steps to change my behaviour.
That has been logical to me since I was barely able to talk, I don't know if it was because I was around these animals on farms, working with them or just some thing that just made sense in my brain for whatever reason. It's never been from some empathy reason, it's always stemmed from pure reason for me - why do I value A, why to I do B? I hate illogical things, I hate cognitive dissonance. I hate being in the wrong. Even with that it took a long time to bring it in to action, like you I made no effort to change to align with what I believe. It took until I was 18 to actually do something about it (even then vegetarian wasn't a word my parents had even heard of, I barely had), and 10 years more to take the step to being vegan. Now veganism is common in teens and young adults and I'd be viewed as some weak-ass old man that couldn't even go straight to veganism. I'm in a dining out group with 10,000 people in Dublin, am definitely on the older side compared to most. It's not the dinosaurs that will be changing society.

It's a really common thing to not think about these things, think of people you view as logical like Sam Harris, Dawkins etc, a lot of them have share common beliefs with me about animals, yet it is really hard for even them to act on it, and even when they do they are quite meek about it.

Quote:
Once they start making it simple to change with things like fake burgers that taste alright (they don't have to bleed, wtf is that all about) I think you will see a big swong away from meat based on both moral and environmental stances. I think it might happen quite quickly as well.
Convenience is king, you don't persuade the masses out of the good of their hearts to do anything if it puts them out, not currently anyway. Even for me, veganism is not something I want to do, at all. One of the most common things said by people before they've gone vegan? "I'd never be vegan". I said it. It's something I think that people should do, so I do it, but not everybody is going to give a shit or think the same. The reason there are so many people stopping eating meat now is all these alternatives making it easier by the day.
Eating ready meals from M&S or Tesco? Half of them are vegan now. A year ago none of them were. There's vegan Ben & Jerry's, Hellman's Mayo, McDonalds Happy Meals, loads of new restaurants etc. A feckin' Gregg's sausage Roll that has sold hundreds of thousands in it's first week.
I think a lot of the food has a long ways to go still, but it's going to be a radical and fast change. Even chefs are now being taught vegan cooking from the outset now, one day I will be offered my last fruit salad.

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Perfect contraception would see population growth go immediately into reverse .
There'd be a whole other set of problems within a generation
It messes with things in such a way that the most poverty stricken are the ones with children, survival of the chavest.
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Old 11-01-19, 12:57   #47348
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Looking forward to being hunted down by the Vegan Gestapo in a few years time while I bravely lead the last band of Meat Resistance fighters from the shattered ruins of Shanahans on the Green.
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Old 11-01-19, 13:01   #47349
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Looking forward to being hunted down by the Vegan Gestapo in a few years time while I bravely lead the last band of Meat Resistance fighters from the shattered ruins of Shanahans on the Green.
As a climate-post-apocalyptic zero waste vegan, I look forward to your tender meat after a successful eco-friendly hunt by foot.

There' quite a funny mockumentary made for the BBC by Simon Amstell about a vegan society in the future where the relics of the past take part in such things as cheese support groups
https://archive.org/details/SimonAms...04sh6zgIplayer
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Old 11-01-19, 14:15   #47350
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film updates:

Green book-Very formulaic but highly enjoyable 7/10

The favorite- Great first half-poor second half- Great performances and costumes 5/10

Wildlife- underwhelmed- i almost feel disappointed of my disappointment, as was expecting so much 5/10

Roma- superb-simple and beautiful-loved it 8.5/10

Ralph breaks the internet-disappointing- even the kids were meh 5/10

The old man and the gun- all in all, not very good, and not very exciting 3/10
a few more

Vice - flat and soulless biopic of a pretty awful man 3/10

A star is born - Nothing special. some endearing moments but definitely not an oscar winner 5/10

beautiful boy - Carrell does not suit emotional roles, and this is a pretty tame and clean "drug" or "rehab" movie 4/10

Conclusion-none of these 3 are worth the bother to be honest

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Old 11-01-19, 14:35   #47351
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The only argument for switching off meat for me are the environmental damage and energy loss involved in its production and a mass switch to veganism isn’t really addressing those issues ( eg soya and maize production)
I personally won’t ever be dissuaded from eating meat by considerations of the animals suffering (though at the moment I have the luxury of being able to by meat from reasonably reared animals, though they are still being killed so..
I am making an effort to cut down big time purely for environmental and health reasons, especially processed meats ( which is tough, love a bit of prosciutto )


I guess the problem I have with a lot of this coverage of the likes of lab grown meat, driverless electronic cars etc is that it’s all part of this narrative that we in the western and developing world won’t have to make any drastic changes to our way of life, that we will have lovely solutions engineered for us that combined with a little bit of tinkering in our personal lives means we can carry on consuming mountains of crap and pursuing mental policies based on infinite growth
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Old 11-01-19, 14:38   #47352
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Anyone seen stan and Ollie?

Looking forward to Coogans next film , about a birthday party thrown on a Greek island for a billionaire retail mogul. Cough Philip green cough
Directed by guy who did The Trip
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Old 11-01-19, 14:45   #47353
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Yeah I often try to think about what's normal now that will look crazy, what's going to be our version of old people calling people golliwogs. It's kinda funny too people who rightly look back in horror at the normality of segregation also seem to believe we've reached the pinnacle of morality, and nothing will change from here, despite all the prior history.

Meat is the easy one. When we've perfect effortless contraception, both sides of the abortion debate will look horrific to everyone. Probably how we deal with criminality too. It's inevitable there's things that we won't even think of.
With any luck (but I’m not optimistic) people will look back aghast at people today bugging their own homes with “A.I” assistants and sharing completely inappropriate personal info on social media
A little bit of time to go yet before we get some good drama out of kids taking action against their parents for overexposing them online when growing up
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Old 11-01-19, 14:52   #47354
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Are you implying we're mostly mistakes?
We can't simultaneously be worried about there being fewer jobs and also worried about there being fewer people?
It's a good set of problems, population should come down.
100%
The amount of people I know who were actively planning on pregnancy I could probably count on one hand.
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Old 11-01-19, 14:55   #47355
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With any luck (but I’m not optimistic) people will look back aghast at people today bugging their own homes with “A.I” assistants and sharing completely inappropriate personal info on social media
A little bit of time to go yet before we get some good drama out of kids taking action against their parents for overexposing them online when growing up
if anything the trend will go in the opposite direction
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Old 11-01-19, 15:01   #47356
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a few more

Vice - flat and soulless biopic of a pretty awful man 3/10

A star is born - Nothing special. some endearing moments but definitely not an oscar winner 5/10

beautiful boy - Carrell does not suit emotional roles, and this is a pretty tame and clean "drug" or "rehab" movie 4/10

Conclusion-none of these 3 are worth the bother to be honest
damn, was hoping Vice would be decent.
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Old 11-01-19, 15:30   #47357
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Old 11-01-19, 15:53   #47358
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That's class DP. People don't realise just how much we will have to do now.

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Old 11-01-19, 15:58   #47359
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Old 11-01-19, 16:44   #47360
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Why doesn't Irish Central Bank have this coolness factor?

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