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Old 16-12-18, 19:30   #1
Flushdraw
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Swieqi, Sunny Malta
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Tilting Tournament Rules?

Just back from a tournament that was pretty tilting due to a few things (busting just before the final table being one of them!)

It was an accumulator tournament with 5 day 1s (€60). You could play all 5 Day 1s and combine your chips for Day 2. You could also buy in on Day 2 for €200 and get a 100k stack. (average stack was 130k starting Day 2)

1. Each Day 1 was a multi-entry. Not a huge deal and it usually means some dead money, but should it be a single entry on each day 1 seeing as you can enter 6 times as it is?

2. What should the min cash be? They had it at €300 which i thought was far too high. I would have had it at €200 to cover the Day 2 entry, but it's up to each player how much they want to put into the tournament. I don't think they should be accommodated by the min cash. (You could actually buy in 17 places off the money wit 16bb)

3. The payout structure was horrendous. 17-32 place all got €300, then there were pay jumps to €330 and €350, up to 8th place getting €400. It tilted me so bad.

4. They chipped up twice. Both times during the break when they asked players to leave, and my stack was decimated because i was the chip leader at the table both times. I watched the whole first one for 10 mins, and despite the dealer and another chipping up, not once did either of them confirm the stack/amounts before taking from my stack. I know my stack was off the first time after it, and also seemed to be off the second time. I really should have counted it before/after the break.

5. Hand for hand last 18 minutes and we played 3 hands. The clock wasn't stopped. Yes or no these days?

6. When there were 30 players left, we were playing 7,5,5,6,7 handed and they wouldn't balance the tables (Similar situations from just after the bubble). According to them, if there's a '2 person gap' between players you can play on, so they waited until we got to 28 players before breaking 5 tables into 4... What's the rule here? We were 9 handed all day if that matters.

7. It was a big blind ante, so some weird levels. Dealers had a nightmare deciding whether it was a full ante or half ante depending on how many players at the table. Some of them also had no concept of what the min 3bet is.

All in all, it made for a pretty tilting tournament, and this is the best of the casinos in Malta with the highest quality dealers.
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Old 17-12-18, 20:50   #2
Hectorjelly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
1. Each Day 1 was a multi-entry. Not a huge deal and it usually means some dead money, but should it be a single entry on each day 1 seeing as you can enter 6 times as it is?
A lot of the answers are going to be the same here. There is no right or wrong answer here, its up to the organisers as to what they think is best. I assume different players will have different preferences based on their bankroll/preference etc. These tournaments are a pretty new phenomenon and don't have an accepted best practice, or any format that would be considered normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
2. What should the min cash be? They had it at €300 which i thought was far too high. I would have had it at €200 to cover the Day 2 entry, but it's up to each player how much they want to put into the tournament. I don't think they should be accommodated by the min cash. (You could actually buy in 17 places off the money wit 16bb)
Similar to the question above, its going to a question of preference.

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Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post

3. The payout structure was horrendous. 17-32 place all got €300, then there were pay jumps to €330 and €350, up to 8th place getting €400. It tilted me so bad.
This seems pretty badly thought out. A lot of the times for new tournaments the person making the payout structure last played poker in the seventies and puts absolutely no thought into it.

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Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
4. They chipped up twice. Both times during the break when they asked players to leave, and my stack was decimated because i was the chip leader at the table both times. I watched the whole first one for 10 mins, and despite the dealer and another chipping up, not once did either of them confirm the stack/amounts before taking from my stack. I know my stack was off the first time after it, and also seemed to be off the second time. I really should have counted it before/after the break.
Almost all of the large mistakes and cheating involving chips occurs during chip races. At the Fitz I tried to bring in a better system that would speed things up and take away the opportunity for dealer to cheat/make a mistake, the players liked it but there was so much organisational resistance I gave up. As a player you should always count your stack if you plan to leave the table, as the dealers will often make mistakes. Also, if they don't make a mistake but you think they did, its going to tilt you worrying about it. It sounds like they ran the chip race particularly badly; but if you know your stack before hand you don't really need to watch them. Take a photo of it for extra security.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
5. Hand for hand last 18 minutes and we played 3 hands. The clock wasn't stopped. Yes or no these days?
There are suggested TDA procedures for Hand for Hand that they clearly didn't follow, but then I have never actually seen them implemented. They play a set amount of hands per level during hand for hand.

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Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
6. When there were 30 players left, we were playing 7,5,5,6,7 handed and they wouldn't balance the tables (Similar situations from just after the bubble). According to them, if there's a '2 person gap' between players you can play on, so they waited until we got to 28 players before breaking 5 tables into 4... What's the rule here? We were 9 handed all day if that matters.
They are following the rules here.

"D: Full-table play will halt on tables 3 or more players short of the table with the most players. Play halts on other formats (ex: 6-hand and turbos) at TDs discretion. TDs may waive halting play and waiver is not a misdeal. As the event progresses, at TD’s discretion tables may be more tightly balanced."

For some reason players go absolutely crazy when tables aren't balanced; but by the rules there is no need to balance them exactly. Personally as a TD I'm very reluctant to move players when you are close to breaking a table anyway, as its just a waste of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
7. It was a big blind ante, so some weird levels. Dealers had a nightmare deciding whether it was a full ante or half ante depending on how many players at the table. Some of them also had no concept of what the min 3bet is.
This is pretty standard throughout the entire poker industry. Dealers aren't trained or kept up to date with recent developments. Most dealers will be Freelance, and in a best case scenario will be brought to a 30 minute meeting and given pointers that half of them will forget immediately. 1 Hour into any large tournament in Ireland and at least 30% of the dealers will have no idea what showdown order rule is in place.

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Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
All in all, it made for a pretty tilting tournament, and this is the best of the casinos in Malta with the highest quality dealers.
There's no such thing as bad staff. Just bad management.
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