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    missing burned card advice is needed !!!

    hey guys was playing a 1 2 cash game only an hour ago and need advice on a situation!!!
    there is a raise preflop i call kq flop comes q 6 2 wit two diamonds.
    original raiser who is drunk and owns the club bets he gets 3 callers and i ship and he calls.
    We begin to discuss the possibility of a deal he has the nut flush draw when the dealer who isnt a qualified dealer rather the clubs doorman burns a card and i stop him before its revealed
    Now it gets interesting we decide to just run it ok but the dealer says when he is about to burn the top card on the deck that he has already burned a card which is situated in the muck i become really confused and argue that the burn card is not situated along with the other burn card but he deals out the turn and its a diamond and rewards the pot to the owner of the club??
    Im offered the chance to view the camera which i didnt because i was so livid about the hand but even if he did burn a card but its mucked does the burn card even exist???

    Now i want to say im leading the clubs cash league, i have re done their tournament schedule for them and done TD for them the past two tourneys free of charge so im basically 1 of their best customers.
    Do you think that the way in which the situation was handled was unfair???

    Just maybe clarication of the common rule if it exists???
    Thanks any posts are appreciated

    #2
    If the dealer burned a card before you guys discussed the deal, that is the burn card.

    It would be wrong to burn a second card.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
      If the dealer burned a card before you guys discussed the deal, that is the burn card.

      It would be wrong to burn a second card.
      but emmett i wasnt actually shown the burnt card as it was part of the muck and i genuinely did not see it being placed in the muck

      Comment


        #4
        If they offered to show you the video its highly unlikely that they were lying.

        I'd hope that playing with the owner of the place he'd be very wary of rules and not messing anyone about.

        It comes down to trust, more so than there being an actual "ruling" that can take place here. If you don't trust that the card was burned, then you probably shouldn't be playing in the place, especially if, when questioned, they both said it had.

        If you think the owner would risk losing the business of one of their most frequent players (by your admission) and getting a bad name for the club by cheating (intentionally or unintentionally), you probably shouldn't be playing there.

        Just my opinion of course

        Comment


          #5
          yeah i understand what u mean i just think that under the circumstances the decision was poor and could have been handled much better than it was

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by brady23 View Post
            yeah i understand what u mean i just think that under the circumstances the decision was poor and could have been handled much better than it was
            how so?

            By offering to show you the video, they did pretty much the only thing that the could do in retrospect to clarify the situation.

            What other options could they have pursued? Chop the pot?

            Comment


              #7
              yeah i believe that when the unofficial dealer makes a mistake which rewards the manager and director the pot even when he is drunk even though he is not gonna make a rulimg unfavourable for him is a bit ludicrous to be honest would you not agree???

              Comment


                #8
                where was this?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by brady23 View Post
                  yeah i believe that when the unofficial dealer makes a mistake which rewards the manager and director the pot even when he is drunk even though he is not gonna make a rulimg unfavourable for him is a bit ludicrous to be honest would you not agree???
                  Perhaps, if indeed the burn card was not played.
                  But by choosing not to watch the tape, you denied yourself a legitimate chance at "Justice".

                  Its speculation otherwise

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by phantom_lord View Post
                    where was this?
                    Yeah sounds like a place i wouldn't be playing,

                    Bouncer as dealer?
                    Owner drunk playing?
                    Customer organised tournaments and doing TD?
                    ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                    I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                    Comment


                      #11
                      but i dont believe its speculation i just think that regardless of whether the card was burned is not as important as the way in which the situation arose or the way in which it was handled i'd prefer not to say the club where it took place

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Nobody was forcing you to play with a drunken owner and a dealer who wasn't properly trained...

                        Comment


                          #13
                          you say he burned the card, then u stopped him. you didnt see him return card to deck either. so you DID see him burn a card, and you just don't know where it went. you were offered the video to see what happened, but declined. No problem with the hand IMO, you lost. all the "I'm the best customer" stuff doesnt matter.
                          http://mobro.co/zuroph
                          donate to my hairy lip!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            i honestly believed at the time i seen the card being re turned to the deck but i cant be certain i genuinely just think that the way in which the hand played out and the lack of clarification and casualness of how they done it really angered me because they didnt know what to do

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I know I sound incredibly unsympathetic, but I genuinely don't understand what the club could have done to clarify the situation beyond what they offered to do?

                              What do you think they should have done?

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                I know I sound incredibly unsympathetic, but I genuinely don't understand what the club could have done to clarify the situation beyond what they offered to do?

                                What do you think they should have done?
                                I genuinely feel that because of the people involved ie the manager and his decision to have his bouncer deal and his lack of knowledge as to what to in the situation(never managed owned or was involved in poker up until 8 months) the hand should have been killed and the pot split or the so called burned card be returned to the and the deck be shuffled and a new turn used

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  The standard procedure for burn cards is that they get placed under the pot, and not removed from there until the pot has been pushed to the winning player.

                                  Tbh, I've little sympathy for your plight because you're playing in a cowboy joint. The game would have to be excellent for me to sit here, and if that's the case then shut up and put up would be my advice. If not, I'd find a good game.

                                  Poker takes skill to run well,
                                  C

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by brady23 View Post
                                    I genuinely feel that because of the people involved ie the manager and his decision to have his bouncer deal and his lack of knowledge as to what to in the situation(never managed owned or was involved in poker up until 8 months) the hand should have been killed and the pot split or the so called burned card be returned to the and the deck be shuffled and a new turn used
                                    With the same ruling if you'd won the pot?
                                    http://mobro.co/zuroph
                                    donate to my hairy lip!

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by brady23 View Post
                                      Im offered the chance to view the camera which i didnt
                                      WTF?

                                      Why didn't you?
                                      Looking at the video would have clarified anything that needed clarifying. There is no more to it than that.
                                      If you didn't look at the video why on earth are you asking anyone else about it now
                                      Turning millions into thousands

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Maloney333 View Post
                                        Yeah sounds like a place i wouldn't be playing,

                                        Bouncer as dealer?
                                        Owner drunk playing?
                                        Customer organised tournaments and doing TD?
                                        Owner drunk playing. At 11:30am

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                                          Owner drunk playing. At 11:30am
                                          Dont hate the playa...
                                          http://mobro.co/zuroph
                                          donate to my hairy lip!

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            You could have just counted the cards in the muck - odd number = burned card, even number = no burned card.

                                            I think you're just sour you lost the pot tbh.

                                            Comment

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