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    General spot question

    64k behind, 2,000/4,000 blinds. 5 handed. 4 paid

    UTG you get very good cards. Raise to 11k.

    Folded round to the BB, who, with a stack of 110k raises to 26k. He has a history of OCCASIONALLY bluff three betting, but is generally a solid player.

    I appreciate it's a fold/shove situation, but what's the minimum you should be shoving with here, considering his stack size?

    #2
    For me the most important thing here is to have some sort of a plan. We are not at the stage where we can play a pot & adjust on streets.

    You seem to have blindly opened to 11k (why 11k? - you don't mention antes), have you given consideration to who is in what position after you and what your reaction will be to 3-bets or shoves from each?

    Have you been consistant in your opening amounts or varying them from 2x-3x, hand dependant. This will be picked up pretty quickly on and exploited by better players in my experience and especially now (5 handed - bubble) at a later stage in the tournament.

    In other words, what would you consider your image to be to villain?

    Comment


      #3
      I generally open around the 2.5x mark. I was probably seen as more on the nitty side.

      Considering this, and the fact that i had opened UTG, would show strength.

      His slightly over min raise made me feel he was inducing the shove, which it was obviously designed to do.

      I'd probably have called a shove.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by *PocketRockets* View Post
        I generally open around the 2.5x mark. I was probably seen as more on the nitty side.

        Considering this, and the fact that i had opened UTG, would show strength.

        His slightly over min raise made me feel he was inducing the shove, which it was obviously designed to do.

        I'd probably have called a shove.
        Its 5 handed opening utg means damn all.

        Dont like opening folding with 16bbs esp as we have nearly 3 invested.

        If we have good cards were getting it in.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
          Its 5 handed opening utg means damn all. Agreed

          Dont like opening folding with 16bbs esp as we have nearly 3 invested. Not necessarily, seems to be more common practice to raise/fold from 13-15bb stacks these days from what I've seen (depends on ave stack, general perceived edge on field etc). In this case also depends on other stacks / how much min-cash means to OP I guess)

          If we have good cards were getting it in. (If were getting it in, not a fan of a 52k repop? )
          .

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
            Its 5 handed opening utg means damn all.

            Dont like opening folding with 16bbs esp as we have nearly 3 invested.

            If we have good cards were getting it in.
            Raise folding off 16bbs is so standard and inability to r/f off this stack size is a massive leak!!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by *PocketRockets* View Post
              I generally open around the 2.5x mark. I was probably seen as more on the nitty side.

              Considering this, and the fact that i had opened UTG, would show strength.

              His slightly over min raise made me feel he was inducing the shove, which it was obviously designed to do.

              I'd probably have called a shove.
              There's a lot wrong with this. Just open to 8k, and if you want to make it more then go 9k, but there's no need for 11k.

              You also opened the hijack. It's 5 handed so you should be opening your raising range. We also don't know the stacks of the other 3 guys. Are you raise/folding to them all, or raise/calling them all? If definetly makes a difference what stacks they have because my hand because less important.

              He doesn't really 'slightly over min raise'. It's a decent 3bet size and it's not necessarily trying to induce a shove from you. If you were going to call a shove pre, you should still stick it in now tho because you've just given yourself 2 chances to win the pot.

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks guys. So you're saying if I do raise in that position I should be willing to go in with it?

                For those who think an open/fold scenario is possible, what is the minimum you shove with?

                (Also, min raise is 22k, so 26k is only one blind above?)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by *PocketRockets* View Post
                  Thanks guys. So you're saying if I do raise in that position I should be willing to go in with it?

                  For those who think an open/fold scenario is possible, what is the minimum you shove with?
                  What I was saying is think before you act, not after.

                  Just doing this as a basic function will improve your game straight away.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks Dice.

                    Did forget to mention, one player had 16k, so that factored into my equation with the bubble there.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by *PocketRockets* View Post
                      Thanks guys. So you're saying if I do raise in that position I should be willing to go in with it?
                      No, you are well within you're rights to have a r/f (raise/fold) range here but only min raise at this stack depth.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by brady23 View Post
                        Raise folding off 16bbs is so standard and inability to r/f off this stack size is a massive leak!!
                        Well the guy says he has very good cards would you raise fold very good cards?
                        He has said this man likes to 3bet bluff.

                        Now what he considers good cards I dont know.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                          Well the guy says he has very good cards would you raise fold very good cards?
                          He has said this man likes to 3bet bluff.

                          Now what he considers good cards I dont know.
                          Dont like opening folding with 16bbs esp as we have nearly 3 invested.

                          U said the above, I'm just pointing out the above statement is a leak, r/f is perfectly fine off 16bbs.
                          A definition of good cards can change vs an opponent, one can easily r/f a hand vs one opponent while r/c vs another.
                          He also said occasionally, I'm not saying what I r/c or r/f!
                          I'm just saying r/f off 16bbs even with 3bbs invested is totally fine!!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by *PocketRockets* View Post
                            (Also, min raise is 22k, so 26k is only one blind above?)
                            Min 3 bet is not 22k just fyi it would be 18k in this instance. *Math 11-4 = 7; 11+7 = 18
                            Poker is like sex, position is everything..

                            Twitter: https://twitter.com/Duecewilder

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by *PocketRockets* View Post
                              Considering this, and the fact that i had opened UTG, would show strength.
                              Showing strength is the first sign of weakness

                              Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                              There's a lot wrong with this. Just open to 8k, and if you want to make it more then go 9k, but there's no need for 11k.

                              You also opened the hijack. It's 5 handed so you should be opening your raising range. We also don't know the stacks of the other 3 guys. Are you raise/folding to them all, or raise/calling them all? If definetly makes a difference what stacks they have because my hand because less important.

                              He doesn't really 'slightly over min raise'. It's a decent 3bet size and it's not necessarily trying to induce a shove from you. If you were going to call a shove pre, you should still stick it in now tho because you've just given yourself 2 chances to win the pot.
                              +1 to this

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Duecewilder View Post
                                Min 3 bet is not 22k just fyi it would be 18k in this instance. *Math 11-4 = 7; 11+7 = 18
                                Not where I play

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Changes place to place in Ireland... but double the raised amount in this case to 18k is generally the accepted norm
                                  Poker is like sex, position is everything..

                                  Twitter: https://twitter.com/Duecewilder

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    generally double the bet, not double the raise in most irish casinos, no?
                                    Is that how you crash a wedding? yes it is, Bionic Barry, yes it is.

                                    Comment

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