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Old 25-05-11, 12:39   #41
Wombatman
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The 14k in the middle is a bigger factor then IMC surely.

Does Pokerstove account for blockers?
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Old 25-05-11, 12:55   #42
Laois Hammer
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Originally Posted by Wombatman View Post
The 14k in the middle is a bigger factor then IMC surely.
Yes thats why its +cEV and we're all going to take the flip to get a stack.
Im not trying to push icm and say it matters in this spot i just felt like doing it and might aswel post it when i did.

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Does Pokerstove account for blockers?
Yeh if player 1 has AK, there will be less combinations of AA/KK/AQ etc in the other range
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Old 25-05-11, 13:54   #43
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Originally Posted by TheImprover View Post
Where were you sitting?, my own immediate toughts on that hand was JJ/QQ or maybe absolutley nothing, after all he was involved in nearly every hand and i did get a double up off him with the set of 9's aswell as taking a pot from him when Jason opened and he flatted, i flatted from the sb with AA, checked it to him and he leads for about 9k, i made it 25k and took the pot down, so maybe with this he could be shoving light, i had AQ in that hand, i think he had about 110k where at the time i had about 130k so imo its an easy fold with the AQ, i'm just glad he did'nt turn his cards as it could have looked like an angleshoot by me, or maybe it was an angleshoot by him, who know's, interesting.
No angle, i genuinely thought you said call and had my cards halfway flipped up before the guy beside me quickly said that you had said count and not call. It was just a brainfart at a very inopportune time. I also didn't have nearly as much as 50bb (maybe not even half that?) and i'm pretty sure i had the button at the time.

David
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Old 25-05-11, 16:06   #44
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Originally Posted by DavidOC View Post
No angle, i genuinely thought you said call and had my cards halfway flipped up before the guy beside me quickly said that you had said count and not call. It was just a brainfart at a very inopportune time. I also didn't have nearly as much as 50bb (maybe not even half that?) and i'm pretty sure i had the button at the time.

David
And you had?
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Old 25-05-11, 16:50   #45
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Originally Posted by DavidOC View Post
No angle, i genuinely thought you said call and had my cards halfway flipped up before the guy beside me quickly said that you had said count and not call. It was just a brainfart at a very inopportune time. I also didn't have nearly as much as 50bb (maybe not even half that?) and i'm pretty sure i had the button at the time.

David
Hi David, very well done on you're 2nd place, i am nearly certain once the dealer counted out you're stack it was close enough to 110k which made my decision very easy, it doesn't really matter now but out of curiosity what did you have as a couple of us have spoke about this and my first initial thoughts were JJ/QQ but it was a huge shove so i dont know now
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Old 25-05-11, 18:26   #46
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So there's two possible things that happened here

A) My stack had a lot of chips in it but was not that big. For most of day 2 i remember seemingly having the lions share of the small denomination chips at every table i played at. I'd need at least 3 racks to rack up each time. So its possible it looked liike more than it actually was.

B) I miscounted my stack and made a push i wouldn't have made if i'd counted correctly. This was my first ever big live event (i think the last time i played a live tournament was a 20 FO in the collosus 3 years ago), and i made a LOT of beginners mistakes for live poker (declaring open raise amounts when somebody had already opened the action, posting the wrong blinds/antes because i hadn't noticed the level change etc) and i haven't learned how to properly estimate a stack by just eyeballing it yet. I had tried to keep a rough running total in my head all day and its possible that the small pots i won and the elimination i'd made about 15 minutes earlier amounted to a lot more chips than i thought.

If you can remember the count i believe you, if i had known i had that much i wouldn't have shoved there, if i had what i thought i had (~20bb) i'm fine with my play. I do remember not long afterwards one of my friends asking me my chip count and i told him, which he then told me that i actually had more.

I had AQ fwiw, and i agree that you cant call there with AQ, especially given my comment. You said (what i thought was) "call" so quickly that i figured you had to have a premium hand.
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Old 26-05-11, 02:06   #47
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Originally Posted by Laois Hammer View Post
Yh well we're both correct... yours is the pure chip odds (+/-cEV), I put it into icm explorer and tried to tweak it for an mtt as good as possible and its usually pretty bang on, i did say it was from a math point of view without taking into account if you wanted to take a -Ev gamble (which of course could be +cEV)...

note, i gave everyone else at the table the average chip stack for that stage of the tournament which seemed like the best way to run it without having a hand history or full stack sizes


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ah, apologies LH.
I thought for a second it might be ICM but didn't have a clue how you'd do it. so figured to made a calc error.

Interesting way of looking at it both ICM and cEV
I woild of never estimated that ICM requires such additional EV as 5%, given that the next 40 or 60 payouts are pretty flat
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Old 26-05-11, 12:42   #48
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Originally Posted by DavidOC View Post
If you can remember the count i believe you, if i had known i had that much i wouldn't have shoved there, if i had what i thought i had (~20bb) i'm fine with my play. I do remember not long afterwards one of my friends asking me my chip count and i told him, which he then told me that i actually had more.

I had AQ fwiw, and i agree that you cant call there with AQ, especially given my comment. You said (what i thought was) "call" so quickly that i figured you had to have a premium hand.
You definitely had > 40 BB's David. Blinds were 1200/2400 at the time and the dealer came back with a count somewhere over 100k.

Knew it was AQ It was just the way you asked 'Do you have AK..?', and if I'm in Keiths spot with AQ and that angle I think this is a really tough fold in any case.. Was an interesting hand

Btw congrats on the score mate!
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Old 27-05-11, 03:01   #49
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No angle, i genuinely thought you said call and had my cards halfway flipped up before the guy beside me quickly said that you had said count and not call. It was just a brainfart at a very inopportune time. I also didn't have nearly as much as 50bb (maybe not even half that?) and i'm pretty sure i had the button at the time.

David
No, you were in bb sir and you did have prob 40 bbs tbh. Fun hand
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