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Old 20-07-10, 14:03   #41
Bubbleking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorrrr72 View Post
Flop 1 and 4 happen the least and are the easiest decisions.
Flop 2 puts you in a world of hurt if you miss the turn
Flop 3 puts you in a world of hurt if the turn is a blank

I try and give myself easy decisions so I guess I'm a looney

More often than not you will have 1 overcard and your decisions are harder because the pot is already big so any c-bets are generally bigger.
nah your definitely not a looney - I owe TommyGunne for this piece of advice but teh pokers is about making the most EV play not about giving yourself easy decisions the whole time
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Old 20-07-10, 14:17   #42
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Nah I was being a little flippant with the looney remark. Im sure lots of great players would fold here pre-it might even be the best line I dont know. I know I wouldnt though.
Re the different flops would depend of loads of stuff-bet size timing loltells etc-I know Id fold the bejsus out of flop one though! The second and the third are flops that prob look way better for our hand than his and we have no way of no how the action will go. Four Id prop lead call get it in with cr on turn please pokergod. BUT its all so random and vague has no real merit-like I get we have to have a plan for hands but I dont think this stretches to every single permuatation in the deck.
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Old 20-07-10, 14:27   #43
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I was just intrigued by you saying you were calling and not just to hit a set and wanted to see your opinions/actions on different flop textures, etc.
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Old 20-07-10, 14:44   #44
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Yeah what I was getting at was our hand is relatively strong and we will have to win some pots when we dont flop a set(some flops will be sweet for our range more than his etc etc)just as I dont plan on stacking off on every lowball board.
Like If my plan was call to flop a set then insta muck when I didnt I guess Id fold pre aswell.
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Old 20-07-10, 14:57   #45
Starvin Marvin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NerdControl View Post
He has check raised, how is this a silly fold, explain?
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Originally Posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
Well in the last 2 live tournaments ive played for a total for 23 hours play, 3 players impressed me and maybe 25+ were noticeably retarded at poker.
How many of the so called 25+ finished ahead of you though? I presume none, otherwise you may fall into a particular category yourself. It's fascinating that you have such perspective on the game given the sheer lack of creedence to the amount of rubbish that you have posted here.
lol
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Old 20-07-10, 15:11   #46
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Originally Posted by jbravado View Post
Nah I was being a little flippant with the looney remark. Im sure lots of great players would fold here pre-it might even be the best line I dont know. I know I wouldnt though.
Re the different flops would depend of loads of stuff-bet size timing loltells etc-I know Id fold the bejsus out of flop one though! The second and the third are flops that prob look way better for our hand than his and we have no way of no how the action will go. Four Id prop lead call get it in with cr on turn please pokergod. BUT its all so random and vague has no real merit-like I get we have to have a plan for hands but I dont think this stretches to every single permuatation in the deck.
Tbh I probably err on the conservative side too much at times but it works for me given my limited skill. I can hold my own against normal standard players but against top guys I get completly pawned most of the time. (I have a higher risk novice style plan for them though) Good thing there are few top players out there.
I'm always working on my game and trying new things though. When to 3 bet shove light, when to min raise etc and I've just discovered how to use the magic of the thin value bet over the last few months.
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Old 20-07-10, 16:29   #47
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Originally Posted by ViperEyeIRL View Post
In the hand in question there is also another player behind the guy with 88, increasing the implied odds of 88 if he calls. And most live players would call there for "value" (guy folded but we couldn't know that), so i don't think that flatting 88 is toot bad in this specific case.
This, flatting 88 here pre is completely standard and expecially so with the player to act behind, your implied odds are about 16/1 minimum without the next guy calling, dont see how anyone can argue otherwise.

Also the guys fold with KK is completely fine here, the checkraise is weighted way more to sets and AA than anything else. The combos of nut flush draws are pretty slim for one and he shouldnt be checkraising pocket pairs less than ours here often if ever. Calling here on the flop with KK and stacking off on blank turns is going to be terrible.
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Old 20-07-10, 16:56   #48
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I think you are giving people way too much credit for being decent Line Us, of course he shouldnt be check raising smaller pocket pairs than ours here but a lot of live players still do. He can also have any heart draw doesnt have to be the nfd, he can easily have called QhJh, 9hTh or similar here which again obv sucks but people still do it.

This is a 40 quid live game where the standard is going to be horrible.
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Old 20-07-10, 17:02   #49
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Originally Posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
I think you are giving people way too much credit for being decent Line Us, of course he shouldnt be check raising smaller pocket pairs than ours here but a lot of live players still do. He can also have any heart draw doesnt have to be the nfd, he can easily have called QhJh, 9hTh or similar here which again obv sucks but people still do it.

This is a 40 quid live game where the standard is going to be horrible.
Well in the original post villian is described as " a regular there who is a solid fairly ABC player." , if he was described as a typical live donk then its obviously fine to stack off. I just think against an ABC player we are pretty much crushed or at best flipping on the flop in this spot. Its so early in the tournament too that I would have no problem folding here, its never a big mistake, calling and getting it in on blank turns however I'd say is a huge mistake.

Last edited by Line Us; 20-07-10 at 17:05.
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Old 20-07-10, 17:20   #50
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Yeah im probably more basing this on my own experience of fast clock live tournaments where i think folding KK on a flop like this would be criminal against most average live players.
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Old 20-07-10, 17:54   #51
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If you are folding KK should you always show and hope the villain reciprocates?
In a bigger buyin tourney I should never show my top set, correct?
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Old 20-07-10, 18:24   #52
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If you are folding KK should you always show and hope the villain reciprocates?
I would say you should never show against aggressive players as they will simply eat you alive. Particularly if it is apparent that you are hoping the other guy will reciprocate as you will come across as such a Greenhorn

Having said that I am a big believer in creating some kind of image against average or poor players. I think most players think about poker in very simple terms, and their image of you is thus very manipulable.
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