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    Ruling advice please!

    Hi,

    The correct action to be taken by a dealer if he exposes the turn card before all players have acted?

    Is a players hand dead if he exposes it in a heads up situation? Tourney and/or cash game.

    Is a players hand dead if he shows it to another player who has folded? Tourney and/or cash game.

    We have experienced UKIPT/EPT dealers but for the sake of fairness would like to get independent advice as players had different opinions on what should happen.

    Thanks for the advice.
    Last edited by Poker @ The Step Inn; 26-10-11, 04:12.

    #2
    The correct action to be taken by a dealer if he exposes the turn card before all players have acted?
    The dealer should deal the next burn card and the river card face down. The exposed card goes back in the deck and the deck is reshuffled. A new turn card is dealt at the appropriate time. When the river is ready to be dealt he turns it over. This preserves the integrity of the deck as much as possible while being fair to all players.
    Last edited by AndyFatBastard; 26-10-11, 04:23.
    "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

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      #3
      Is a players hand dead if he exposes it in a heads up situation? Tourney and/or cash game.
      No to either. The best hand should always win, but in a tournament the player should get a warning/penalty.

      Is a players hand dead if he shows it to another player who has folded? Tourney and/or cash game.
      No, but he should get a warning or a penalty for repeat offenders.
      "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

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        #4
        Originally posted by Poker @ The Step Inn View Post
        Hi,

        The correct action to be taken by a dealer if he exposes the turn card before all players have acted?
        Has been answered correctly

        Is a players hand dead if he exposes it in a heads up situation? Tourney and/or cash game.
        cash game it is not dead, In a tournament it may depend on house rules.

        Is a players hand dead if he shows it to another player who has folded? Tourney and/or cash game.
        Cash game you can show who you like and it wont be dead,
        Tourney it is not dead, however the cards should be shown to all players at the table at the end of the hand.
        That's what I believe anyway!
        ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

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          #5
          Originally posted by Poker @ The Step Inn View Post
          Hi,

          The correct action to be taken by a dealer if he exposes the turn card before all players have acted?

          Is a players hand dead if he exposes it in a heads up situation? Tourney and/or cash game.

          Is a players hand dead if he shows it to another player who has folded? Tourney and/or cash game.

          We have experienced UKIPT/EPT dealers but for the sake of fairness would like to get independent advice as players had different opinions on what should happen.

          Thanks for the advice.
          Originally posted by AndyFatBastard View Post
          The dealer should deal the next burn card and the river card face down. The exposed card goes back in the deck and the deck is reshuffled. A new turn card is dealt at the appropriate time. When the river is ready to be dealt he turns it over. This preserves the integrity of the deck as much as possible while being fair to all players.

          No, this should 100% not be done. I used think before that this was the fairest ruling, but it is not for a very simple reason. If the dealer prematurely deals the turn, the 4h for example, if you then deal the river facedown, put the 4h back in the deck, reshuffle and deal the turn, assuming the turn is not the 4h, then all players now KNOW that the river CANNOT be the 4h.
          ie. dealer turns 4h prematurely. Dealer burns and turns river facedown, and the 4h is put back in the deck and the deck is shuffled. The dealer then turns the turn card. The turn card is the 8s. Not players know that the river cannot be the 4h.
          It's only a small thing, but I strongly believe that it's enough of a reason for the rule to be changed.

          So if the turn is prematurely dealt, the prematurely dealt card is put back in the deck, deck is reshuffled, and we have a brand new turn and river. Yes it means both the turn and rivers change, but on the flop, the turn and river are unknown anyway, so theoretically it makes no difference.
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            #6
            Is a players hand dead if he exposes it in a heads up situation? Tourney and/or cash game.

            It depends on house rules. Strictly speaking, if a player exposes his hand, it's considered dead. However, the problem I have with this rule is the context in which a player exposes his hand. Generally, if a player accidentally exposes his hand, his hand is not dead but his options may be limited (e.g. he can now only call bets and cannot raise). However, this rule is generally in place to prevent players purposefully exposing their hand to get a reaction off a player.

            IMO, players should be allowed expose any or all cards if the pot is heads up in a tournament or cash game. It's "good for the game" imo.

            However, if I was writing a rule book, my rule would be "any player who exposes part of his hand to an opponent in a heads-up pot still has a live hand. However, he may be subject to a penalty at the TD/floor person's discretion"
            I personally don't see the point in limiting a person's options when they are at a disadvantage (I've never heard about anyone getting free information during a hand, and then complaining after their opponent has raised them)


            Is a players hand dead if he shows it to another player who has folded? Tourney and/or cash game.


            No, never. However, the player's cards must exposed after the hand to all players. If this is constantly done, a penalty should be invoked imo.
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