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    Obscene stuff in Fitz EOM?

    I wasn't sure if I should post this as everything was sorted in the end. However as some people have said, the players deserve to know what happened anyway.

    It was the 100-200 level when this hand occurred. UTG raises to 600, I call on the button with A9. The BB completes. The flop comes down 10 high and the BB checks, UTG then bets 600, I call. Before the BB has a chance to call,raise or fold the dealer turns a Queen.

    Theres a good bit of confusion and I ask for a ruling. The BB then says "Ah Im out now anyways" and just mucks. Myself and UTG ask for the floor to be called and the dealer is hesitant. This was the start of a major fuck up imo. The acting TD came over and asked what the action had been. It was explained to him twice by the dealer and by myself and UTG. Now it was incoherent and alot of chirp going on. I have no doubt it was hard for the TD to get a real grasp of what had happened. The BB having folded I believe added alot more confusion.

    Anyway the ruling was made that the card stands on the basis that action has taken place and we are to carry on. UTG is quite disgruntled and checks. I bet hoping to take it away then and there and he calls the bet of 1700. The river is an Ace and he checks and I bet 3500. He calls and mucks Kings face up. He was angry with the ruling and the TD and him were continuing their discussion. I agreed that the turn should of been re-shuffled and that's why I called for the floor.

    It was the last hand of before the break and I stayed around because the argument was still going on between UTG and TD. I said to the guy beside me at the table "just watch his stack, he might get chips back here". He had one yellow chip left(5k).
    I came back 5 minutes later and there was now 2 yellow chips in his stack. I asked the dealer minding the table if the TD had given UTG chips. He didn't want to answer but when pushed confirmed he had indeed been given a 5k chip.

    I called the TD on this and he said that it was the fair thing to do because the mistake was made and that he was a regular and was pissed off and looking for his money back. I was outraged and said that it was an wrong ruling for sure but that reintroducing chips to any player is not fair on every other player in the tournament. I also expressed that had I lost the hand would I of received any chips back?

    Denise got involved and I said my piece and went outside to calm down and when I came back to the table, UTG had been now stripped of the 5k chip. UTG told me he did not ask for the chips back but was angry with the ruling. It just was a fuck up from start to finish bit I have never seen anybody be given extra chips on the basis that they are a regular and a poor ruling was made.

    The TD was apologetic to me and I dont believe he was trying to screw anyone over but surely thats a basic no no for a TD. He was trying to make right his mistake but it shocked me. Also the underhandness of how it was done. I f I had not of spotted it, none of the players would of been informed that UTG now had an extra 5k.

    Any opinions? Does anyone think UTG should have been given chips back?

    #2
    Never should he be given chips back.
    If a ruling is made i always stick by it even if im unhappy with i.
    If itw as a really stupid ruling i might take it furthur.
    Getting a double up because you cause a scene and are angry with a judgement is a joke
    and id have not let is pass
    after the IPC ims ure you more than most would be annoyed with extra chips being employed into peoples stack
    Last edited by Guest; 30-09-11, 15:40.

    Comment


      #3
      Cant see how the TD could just add chips to his stack thats bullcrap. To be honest i would have been looking for my entry back straight away and just leave as its hard enough without "regulars" getting looked after.

      Comment


        #4
        Oh Dear!
        Actually if there was ever a case for least said soonest mended this might be it.

        Terrible mistake and knowing Denise and the Fitz I'm confident that it is not something that will be allowed happen again.

        WP you for spotting it standing up for what was right and dealing with it.
        Turning millions into thousands

        Comment


          #5
          Not enough facepalms but here are a few for starters.

          X can be anything, any number, that is what’s CRAZY about X.
          Because X doesn’t roll like that, because X can’t be pinned down!

          $ Free Travel Credit with Airbnb $

          Comment


            #6
            No way should he have got chips back.... TD Mistake O my god they do make mistakes, they are Human! thanks for posting this Rory, would never think of watching for this in that suitation

            Comment


              #7
              Its a very basic ruling, burn and turn the river face down and then reshuffle the turn. Giving back chips in this scenario is bizarre.

              Comment


                #8
                thats quite the fuck up all roudn there. The turn card should have def been reshuffled into the deck with the river dealt face down first. I cant see how one player mucking changes the action significantly for the turn card to stand.

                Shocking stuff to attempt to give a player chips not in play as he's kicking up a fuss. I don't get why he was so upset tho? He played Kings horribly and got rivered, what did the turn have to do with that??

                Comment


                  #9
                  I was reading this and i actually felt my mouth start to drop open. I have never heard such a cock up being cocked up some more. epic
                  Good spot, but why were you thinking this in the first place as u said to other guy watch his stack?
                  http://www.sitnpoker.com/?amigosid=18

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                    #10
                    That's f*****g disgraceful. I thought they ran things pretty well there but that's just not on. 5k, just to appease a reg, unbelievable.
                    "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

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                      #11
                      Bad ruling obv, but the dealers and floor staff are not proper TD's so sometimes rulings in there are plain wrong or just stupid. As you say, nothing was done maliciously, but lack of proper TD knowledge in there.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ziggin&Zaggin View Post
                        I was reading this and i actually felt my mouth start to drop open. I have never heard such a cock up being cocked up some more. epic
                        Good spot, but why were you thinking this in the first place as u said to other guy watch his stack?
                        TBH ever since I got done in IPC by chips being added I tend to know every player at my tables stack and do a quick check at the breaks, and when I come back.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          My god, how stupid must this TD be. Like the potential damage to the clubs reputation is so huge that it's beyond me how someone would even try this even if they thought nobody would notice. Facepalm indeed.
                          Profit before people.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Fold pre.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              You definitely did the right think in the end by posting this thread Rory regardless of the outcome I think its in the players interest to know about it.

                              100% bizarre thou.
                              "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                              Comment


                                #16
                                I witnessed this first hand and can confirm Downtown's story.

                                I was at his table in the 1 seat and saw this all go down. It went from a very bad ruling IMO to a clusterf**k by trying to add chips to the players stack while the table was away. Very underhanded IMO and made me loses faith in this particular TD.

                                The TD seemed to blame the bad ruling on him not hearing the action correctly when, me being beside dealer, I clearly heard her recount the action correctly.

                                All in all was bit of mess but felt Downtown handled himself well and seemed to be looking out for every player in the room's best interests.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  hi

                                  I was at your table and what really annoyed me is the the dealer was hesitant and reluctant to call the ruling which added more confusion ....and defenetly fucked up the hand...
                                  is she/he paid more if not ruling are required?...everybody wanted the ruling she/he did not want to call the TD, TD was just walking by chance near the table after 3 minutes discussion the only reason why he was involved in the decision.. and not sure he got the right explanations..or may be he got but for sure he did not understand what it really happened and he took the decision based of wrong understanding..

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                                    #18
                                    Sack the TD or at the very least demote him to cleaner for that, absolute disgrace

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Vituperio View Post
                                      I was at your table and what really annoyed me is the the dealer was hesitant and reluctant to call the ruling which added more confusion ....and defenetly fucked up the hand...
                                      is she/he paid more if not ruling are required?...everybody wanted the ruling she/he did not want to call the TD, TD was just walking by chance near the table after 3 minutes discussion the only reason why he was involved in the decision.. and not sure he got the right explanations..or may be he got but for sure he did not understand what it really happened and he took the decision based of wrong understanding..
                                      How do you not know if the dealer was a man or a woman

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by davidadams View Post
                                        Sack the TD or at the very least demote him to cleaner for that, absolute disgrace
                                        This isnt very constructive and a bit unfair from anyone on here to be calling for such action. Its easy to type this sort of stuff from behind a keyboard. As Dom has said above lack of experience is a likely cause to this. But whatever it is I'm sure the club will look to handle it and hopefully all involved learn from it.

                                        Fair play Rory for how you acted throughout and yep correct to post this.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by KevIRL View Post
                                          This isnt very constructive and a bit unfair from anyone on here to be calling for such action. Its easy to type this sort of stuff from behind a keyboard. As Dom has said above lack of experience is a likely cause to this. But whatever it is I'm sure the club will look to handle it and hopefully all involved learn from it.

                                          Fair play Rory for how you acted throughout and yep correct to post this.
                                          +1

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                                            #22
                                            It's just a mistaken ruling at the end of the day but nonetheless one which penalises a dominant hand and costs the player concerned half his chips at an early stage of what is an expensive tournament to enter for a lot of players.

                                            In the interests of fair play and on the basis that this constitutes an exceptional happening in a poker tournament why shouldn't 5k in chips be added to the total in play and why should Rory be so upset about it in the circumstances that he was very fortunate to get any reward from the disputed pot. I don't blame the td for adding what is less than 1% of the total in play as it was his mistake but what should have ensued was an announcement from Denise that 5k was being added to the total in play due to exceptional circumstances.
                                            That's hardly going to result in uproar. Is it that big a deal? Either that or the player gets his entry refunded as he continued to contest the original decision before another hand was played.
                                            "Let your boat of life be light, packed with only what you need - a homely home and simple pleasures, one or two friends, worth the name, someone to love and someone to love you, a cat, a dog, and a pipe or two, enough to eat and enough to wear, and a little more than enough to drink; for thirst is a dangerous thing." Jerome K. Jerome Three men in a Boat

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                              In the interests of fair play and on the basis that this constitutes an exceptional happening in a poker tournament why shouldn't 5k in chips be added to the total in play and why should Rory be so upset about it in the circumstances that he was very fortunate to get any reward from the disputed pot. I don't blame the td for adding what is less than 1% of the total in play as it was his mistake but what should have ensued was an announcement from Denise that 5k was being added to the total in play due to exceptional circumstances.That's hardly going to result in uproar. Is it that big a deal? Either that or the player gets his entry refunded as he continued to contest the original decision before another hand was played.
                                              I can't tell if you are serious here or not There is no reason why an extra 5k should be introduced in the 1st place. So I play a hand badly and lose a pot where there is some sort of dealer error, I kick up a fuss and then TD gives me my chips back is fine you are saying?? Nonsense, there was no exceptional circumstance

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                It's just a mistaken ruling at the end of the day but nonetheless one which penalises a dominant hand and costs the player concerned half his chips at an early stage of what is an expensive tournament to enter for a lot of players.

                                                In the interests of fair play and on the basis that this constitutes an exceptional happening in a poker tournament why shouldn't 5k in chips be added to the total in play and why should Rory be so upset about it in the circumstances that he was very fortunate to get any reward from the disputed pot. I don't blame the td for adding what is less than 1% of the total in play as it was his mistake but what should have ensued was an announcement from Denise that 5k was being added to the total in play due to exceptional circumstances.
                                                That's hardly going to result in uproar. Is it that big a deal? Either that or the player gets his entry refunded as he continued to contest the original decision before another hand was played.

                                                I think it sets a bad precedence to add chips for bad rulings. There would be rulings on rulings and things could get out of hand if that practice became the norm.

                                                Either way it's a pretty bad thing to have done, especially in the way it was done.
                                                Well done to Rory for spotting it, (can't help suspecting that he thought it might have happened before though).

                                                Seems to me to be an angleshoot, lost the hand, bad ruling was to blame, give me some chips.
                                                I don't believe he wasn't looking for the chips and obviously he knew THAT was wrong or he would have kicked up about giving them back.

                                                What was so wrong about the BB saying he was folding anyway, the same cards came out the same way they would have, or am I missing something?

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                  It's just a mistaken ruling at the end of the day but nonetheless one which penalises a dominant hand and costs the player concerned half his chips at an early stage of what is an expensive tournament to enter for a lot of players.

                                                  In the interests of fair play and on the basis that this constitutes an exceptional happening in a poker tournament why shouldn't 5k in chips be added to the total in play and why should Rory be so upset about it in the circumstances that he was very fortunate to get any reward from the disputed pot. I don't blame the td for adding what is less than 1% of the total in play as it was his mistake but what should have ensued was an announcement from Denise that 5k was being added to the total in play due to exceptional circumstances.
                                                  That's hardly going to result in uproar. Is it that big a deal? Either that or the player gets his entry refunded as he continued to contest the original decision before another hand was played.
                                                  Not sure how the ruling affects utg at all, the A was coming on the river either way. Is the claim that he was too disgruntled to bet or check raise the turn?

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                                                    #26
                                                    I think the best thing to do for the TD was to compensate the regular in some way that did not affect the integrity of the tournament, ie free entry to some other tournament or something similar.

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Downtown View Post
                                                      TBH ever since I got done in IPC by chips being added I tend to know every player at my tables stack and do a quick check at the breaks, and when I come back.
                                                      What happened here?

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                                                        #28
                                                        Surely if UTG is going to play his KK so passively Rory still binks the A on the river anyway
                                                        Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot

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                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                                          What happened here?
                                                          Magic Dave?

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                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by Hectorjelly View Post
                                                            What happened here?
                                                            Dont want to go back into it but put up a 2+2 thread that was up at the time in the BBV.

                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                              It's just a mistaken ruling at the end of the day but nonetheless one which penalises a dominant hand and costs the player concerned half his chips at an early stage of what is an expensive tournament to enter for a lot of players.

                                                              In the interests of fair play and on the basis that this constitutes an exceptional happening in a poker tournament why shouldn't 5k in chips be added to the total in play and why should Rory be so upset about it in the circumstances that he was very fortunate to get any reward from the disputed pot. I don't blame the td for adding what is less than 1% of the total in play as it was his mistake but what should have ensued was an announcement from Denise that 5k was being added to the total in play due to exceptional circumstances.
                                                              That's hardly going to result in uproar. Is it that big a deal? Either that or the player gets his entry refunded as he continued to contest the original decision before another hand was played.
                                                              Should I be entitled to my chips back if I lost the hand considering if the proper ruling was made I would of had a chance for an Ace to be dealt? You make no sense to me here at all. Once the ruling was made, it was accepted and there would of been no arguments had I bluffed off my stack to the guy on the river. He loses, is angry and the TD sees fit to sly him 33% of average stack? Your post worries me in the regard that this may be accepted behaviour and more prevalent than I thought. UTG is a victim of a poor ruling and is entitled to expect more from a €270 event. However the whole field is entitled to expect more from a €270 event.
                                                              Last edited by Downtown; 30-09-11, 17:44.

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                                                                #32
                                                                Thinking about it I dont actually hate the ruling of letting the Q play once the BB folds. There is a dealer error that stopped the BB from potentially bluff check raising or flatting but with his hand dead future action isn't going to change.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  The person who said sure what about it, whats another 5k in chips in the grand scheme of things. Are you actually being serious. The reason poker works (must of the time) is that to quote Mike Caro "in the begining all chips are equal".
                                                                  I was gobsmaked reading the original post but I think you mite have just topped that.

                                                                  It was an terrible ruling by the TD to introduce more chips to players stack. In my time playing I dont think I have ever heard such a obscene load of tripe.

                                                                  Only realistic option avail is what another poster said, Free or reduced price entry by the club in a future tourney.
                                                                  http://www.sitnpoker.com/?amigosid=18

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by bohsman View Post
                                                                    Thinking about it I dont actually hate the ruling of letting the Q play once the BB folds. There is a dealer error that stopped the BB from potentially bluff check raising or flatting but with his hand dead future action isn't going to change.
                                                                    I disagree. The river should be dealt face down and the turn put back into the deck, shuffled, and then action should be completed for the flop by the BB.

                                                                    If a soccer player doesnt know the offside rule he would be laughed out of it. Don't see why the same situation of ignorance is tolerated in poker.
                                                                    ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

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                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by Micknail View Post
                                                                      I disagree. The river should be dealt face down and the turn put back into the deck, shuffled, and then action should be completed for the flop by the BB.

                                                                      If a soccer player doesnt know the offside rule he would be laughed out of it. Don't see why the same situation of ignorance is tolerated in poker.
                                                                      The BB has no cards, we can take it as a fold.

                                                                      See my earlier post, obv instantly doing the correct ruling before the bb folds is the way to go, I'm just saying that I dont hate the ruling made.

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Micknail View Post
                                                                        I disagree. The river should be dealt face down and the turn put back into the deck, shuffled, and then action should be completed for the flop by the BB.

                                                                        If a soccer player doesnt know the offside rule he would be laughed out of it. Don't see why the same situation of ignorance is tolerated in poker.

                                                                        That dealing the river card face down rule has been changed afaik because obv all the players know 1 card the river be.

                                                                        As for sacking people etc... what a load of drivel, we're playing cards people.
                                                                        twitter
                                                                        moneybookers

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Keane View Post
                                                                          How do you not know if the dealer was a man or a woman
                                                                          I don't think he wants to name the person that it happened to that's what I get from his post.

                                                                          Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                                          It's just a mistaken ruling at the end of the day but nonetheless one which penalises a dominant hand and costs the player concerned half his chips at an early stage of what is an expensive tournament to enter for a lot of players.

                                                                          In the interests of fair play and on the basis that this constitutes an exceptional happening in a poker tournament why shouldn't 5k in chips be added to the total in play and why should Rory be so upset about it in the circumstances that he was very fortunate to get any reward from the disputed pot. I don't blame the td for adding what is less than 1% of the total in play as it was his mistake but what should have ensued was an announcement from Denise that 5k was being added to the total in play due to exceptional circumstances.
                                                                          That's hardly going to result in uproar. Is it that big a deal? Either that or the player gets his entry refunded as he continued to contest the original decision before another hand was played.
                                                                          That is a shocking post never in a million years should he be awarded "extra" chips because of a small error, it happens from time to time and thats why we get rulings on these types of situation you can't be just adding chips all willy nilly for the sake of it to appease some "reg".

                                                                          The one thing that sticks out and annoys me somewhat is that the person it happened to was a regular and just because of that he gets an unfair advantage over the rest of the field.

                                                                          In this instance I am a fan of dealing the river card to try and keep the integrity of the deck as intact as possible and then re-deal the turn card.
                                                                          "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                                            Is it that big a deal? Either that or the player gets his entry refunded as he continued to contest the original decision before another hand was played.
                                                                            This has to be a level.. Who gives a flying f**k whether UTG is upset, he played the hand like an idiot anyway.

                                                                            Every chip has a monetary value assigned to it, and at the start of the tournament everyone was given 10,000 chips in exchange for €270. This means 5,000 free chips equates to €135 that this man did not pay, and is therefore robbing every other player of equity. You think that's no big deal?
                                                                            "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by Downtown View Post
                                                                              Should I be entitled to my chips back if I lost the hand considering if the proper ruling was made I would of had a chance for an Ace to be dealt? You make no sense to me here at all. Once the ruling was made, it was accepted and there would of been no arguments had I bluffed off my stack to the guy on the river. He loses, is angry and the TD sees fit to sly him 33% of average stack? Your post worries me in the regard that this may be accepted behaviour and more prevalent than I thought. UTG is a victim of a poor ruling and is entitled to expect more from a €270 event. However the whole field is entitled to expect more from a €270 event.
                                                                              Don't you worry your little head about it, Rory. It's all just a big attention draw imo.

                                                                              The fact is that you don't lose half your stack if the ace doesen't come unless you're bad enough to bluff it off, which you quite possibly are.

                                                                              My attitude is one of an open mind when something of this nature crops up. It may be creating a dangerous precedent as another poster has suggested but I see the refund as a complete one-off. I don't know who the player with the kings is but its important for a club like the fitz to keep people happy and this player has a lot of reasons to feel unjustly treated.

                                                                              Oh and do us a favour, Rory. That hard earned eur 50 which I invested in you to play the deepstack in d4 for charity last February. Is there any chance at all of a final report? How much was raised, etc? Thanks in advance.
                                                                              "Let your boat of life be light, packed with only what you need - a homely home and simple pleasures, one or two friends, worth the name, someone to love and someone to love you, a cat, a dog, and a pipe or two, enough to eat and enough to wear, and a little more than enough to drink; for thirst is a dangerous thing." Jerome K. Jerome Three men in a Boat

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                #40
                                                                                Denis - Rory did report back after the deepstack. I'll have a look later and dig out the post, playing a few tables at the moment. From what I recall all that was completely above board and I remember being at the event and how gutted Rory was when he went out.

                                                                                Its a bit of a low blow to suggest anything otherwise, also its really got nothing to do with this thread. Not sure what (if any) personal differences you guys might have but lets keep them off the thread please.

                                                                                Gonna draw a line under this now and nip any potential derailing in the bud


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                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Respect for fighting the bad ruling. The TD should concentrate on giving a correct ruling, not trying to placate people. No way should people be given chips for nothing.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                                                    Don't you worry your little head about it, Rory. It's all just a big attention draw imo.

                                                                                    The fact is that you don't lose half your stack if the ace doesen't come unless you're bad enough to bluff it off, which you quite possibly are.

                                                                                    My attitude is one of an open mind when something of this nature crops up. It may be creating a dangerous precedent as another poster has suggested but I see the refund as a complete one-off. I don't know who the player with the kings is but its important for a club like the fitz to keep people happy and this player has a lot of reasons to feel unjustly treated.

                                                                                    Oh and do us a favour, Rory. That hard earned eur 50 which I invested in you to play the deepstack in d4 for charity last February. Is there any chance at all of a final report? How much was raised, etc? Thanks in advance.
                                                                                    Surely you can see through all the replies to your post how farcical giving this player extra chips is, as the fitz obviously did through their apologies and retraction of the 5k chips.

                                                                                    Aside from that matter, I find your post above extremly offensive and way outta line.
                                                                                    Last edited by Midnitekowby; 30-09-11, 21:40.

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                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Jaysus, Gingermilla, bit offside with the comments.. wish I was as bad as Rory, considering he came 4th in the tournament,.

                                                                                      Anyway, absolutely no way 5K chips should have been given to the guy because he is a "regular"...and felt hard done by...

                                                                                      At the end of the day it was a bad ruling, that just snowballed.
                                                                                      Follow me in twitterland

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by KevIRL View Post
                                                                                        Denis - Rory did report back after the deepstack. I'll have a look later and dig out the post, playing a few tables at the moment. From what I recall all that was completely above board and I remember being at the event and how gutted Rory was when he went out.

                                                                                        Its a bit of a low blow to suggest anything otherwise, also its really got nothing to do with this thread. Not sure what (if any) personal differences you guys might have but lets keep them off the thread please.

                                                                                        Gonna draw a line under this now and nip any potential derailing in the bud


                                                                                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                                                        ^^
                                                                                        line
                                                                                        ^^
                                                                                        That's more like a series if dashes arranged in a line like fashion

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                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          WOW this is crazy trying to give him 5k back

                                                                                          makes you wonder how many times it has happened without it being noticed
                                                                                          Last edited by spoofingjam; 30-09-11, 20:23.

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                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            I knew it!!! Live poker is rigged!!!
                                                                                            "Poker isn’t about default strategies, it’s about exploiting your opponent's bad tendencies"

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                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              The initial ruling was a mistake but these happen all the time.

                                                                                              I wonder how often a regular gets extra chips to make up for these poor rulings?

                                                                                              Has the TD been there long or was he new and inexperienced?



                                                                                              One thing about poker players is that they have very short memories for this type of behaviour and convenience is the most important thing otherwise places like UB and Cork would not be in business so it has gotten to the stage that pointing out dodgy activities is about as useful as talking to the wall.

                                                                                              I would be more concerned with the very busy casino in the city centre that has a cash rake of €4 per person per half hour yet they rake far in excess of this.
                                                                                              Last edited by CheckRaise; 30-09-11, 20:37.

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                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                                                                Don't you worry your little head about it, Rory. It's all just a big attention draw imo.

                                                                                                The fact is that you don't lose half your stack if the ace doesen't come unless you're bad enough to bluff it off, which you quite possibly are.

                                                                                                My attitude is one of an open mind when something of this nature crops up. It may be creating a dangerous precedent as another poster has suggested but I see the refund as a complete one-off. I don't know who the player with the kings is but its important for a club like the fitz to keep people happy and this player has a lot of reasons to feel unjustly treated.

                                                                                                Oh and do us a favour, Rory. That hard earned eur 50 which I invested in you to play the deepstack in d4 for charity last February. Is there any chance at all of a final report? How much was raised, etc? Thanks in advance.
                                                                                                First of all this post is plain nasty.... Your attitude is not one of "an open mind" but of a total ignorance to what is fair and proper in poker and worst of all........full of cheap shots and innuendo.

                                                                                                1- The club/TD knew what he was doing was wrong... otherwise he would have come back after the break and ANNOUNCED to the table that he was giving the 5k chip to the player .....instead of trying to sneak it into the game.

                                                                                                2- How is the player who loses the pot unjustly treated? He stated that he was going to ship the turn before the incident..... WHAT STOPPED HIM WHEN IT WAS A QUEEN (AND NOT CHANGED?) Had the T/D insisted on a new turn card.... and it being an ace... I could understand his annoyance. That ace was coming on the river whatever the ruling! The player with the kings f..... this up himself as Rory was gone from the hand if he ships the turn!

                                                                                                3- The €50 thing is a cheap shot at trying to tarnish a guy who (I witnessed) behaved in a controlled and articulate manner throughout the whole incident.
                                                                                                D15 CASINO, Mulhuddart Village (opp Blanchardstown shopping centre)

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                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by KevIRL View Post
                                                                                                  Denis - Rory did report back after the deepstack. I'll have a look later and dig out the post, playing a few tables at the moment. From what I recall all that was completely above board and I remember being at the event and how gutted Rory was when he went out.

                                                                                                  Its a bit of a low blow to suggest anything otherwise, also its really got nothing to do with this thread. Not sure what (if any) personal differences you guys might have but lets keep them off the thread please.

                                                                                                  Gonna draw a line under this now and nip any potential derailing in the bud


                                                                                                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                                                                  ^^
                                                                                                  line
                                                                                                  The only obscene stuff that I can see emenating from the eom is how low posters can stoop to highlight a bad mistake by someone who directs tournaments for a living and you can be sure that the unfortunate employee has learnt from his mistake regardless of this thread and the usual whingers.

                                                                                                  Like I said i'm sure that this was a one-off and I don't think sensationalising the incident was of any great benefit to anyone.

                                                                                                  I've no idea of what you mean by a low blow, Kevin. If you talk the talk you gotta walk the walk. I didn't suggest anything untoward regarding Rorys involvement in the charity tournament but just like his criticism of the td last night I would be critical of his attitude in that tournament and I wouldn't sponsor him again as a result. I mean he spent too much time looking at his new i-phone instead of concentrating on what was going on around him and yhe that really annoyed me. We didn't receive a final report either - very unprofessional.
                                                                                                  "Let your boat of life be light, packed with only what you need - a homely home and simple pleasures, one or two friends, worth the name, someone to love and someone to love you, a cat, a dog, and a pipe or two, enough to eat and enough to wear, and a little more than enough to drink; for thirst is a dangerous thing." Jerome K. Jerome Three men in a Boat

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                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by westlife View Post
                                                                                                    First of all this post is plain nasty.... Your attitude is not one of "an open mind" but of a total ignorance to what is fair and proper in poker and worst of all........full of cheap shots and innuendo.

                                                                                                    1- The club/TD knew what he was doing was wrong... otherwise he would have come back after the break and ANNOUNCED to the table that he was giving the 5k chip to the player .....instead of trying to sneak it into the game.

                                                                                                    2- How is the player who loses the pot unjustly treated? He stated that he was going to ship the turn before the incident..... WHAT STOPPED HIM WHEN IT WAS A QUEEN (AND NOT CHANGED?) Had the T/D insisted on a new turn card.... and it being an ace... I could understand his annoyance. That ace was coming on the river whatever the ruling! The player with the kings f..... this up himself as Rory was gone from the hand if he ships the turn!

                                                                                                    3- The €50 thing is a cheap shot at trying to tarnish a guy who (I witnessed) behaved in a controlled and articulate manner throughout the whole incident.

                                                                                                    It's not surprising that an exceptional event happened when you were present as you're the biggest whinger on the forum and you generally only post to see what someone thinks of your hard luck story. You just couldn't wait to get this on from early this morning because thats just the way you work. You just love the gossip and seeing people suffer as a result. The only nasty shot is the swipe at the td.

                                                                                                    As to the ace coming anyway, thats not what I understood if the q was shuffled into the pack.
                                                                                                    "Let your boat of life be light, packed with only what you need - a homely home and simple pleasures, one or two friends, worth the name, someone to love and someone to love you, a cat, a dog, and a pipe or two, enough to eat and enough to wear, and a little more than enough to drink; for thirst is a dangerous thing." Jerome K. Jerome Three men in a Boat

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                                                                                                      #51
                                                                                                      Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                                                                      The only obscene stuff that I can see emenating from the eom is how low posters can stoop to highlight a bad mistake by someone who directs tournaments for a living and you can be sure that the unfortunate employee has learnt from his mistake regardless of this thread and the usual whingers.

                                                                                                      Like I said i'm sure that this was a one-off and I don't think sensationalising the incident was of any great benefit to anyone.
                                                                                                      If I pay €270 into a tourney I want to know if this kind of thing has happened. Fair play to Rory for having the awareness to spot it and then for bringing it to attention. This kind of thing it totally wrong and 'reg' or not should never happen. Don't see at all where any sensationalising has occurred.

                                                                                                      Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                                                                      I didn't suggest anything untoward regarding Rorys involvement in the charity tournament but just like his criticism of the td last night I would be critical of his attitude in that tournament and I wouldn't sponsor him again as a result. I mean he spent too much time looking at his new i-phone instead of concentrating on what was going on around him and yhe that really annoyed me. We didn't receive a final report either - very unprofessional.
                                                                                                      Don't see why you even mentioned this at all in this thread. If you have some unresolved issue with the guy then sort it out face to face or PM him IMO.

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                                                                                                        #52
                                                                                                        Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                                                                        The only obscene stuff that I can see emenating from the eom is how low posters can stoop to highlight a bad mistake by someone who directs tournaments for a living and you can be sure that the unfortunate employee has learnt from his mistake regardless of this thread and the usual whingers.

                                                                                                        Like I said i'm sure that this was a one-off and I don't think sensationalising the incident was of any great benefit to anyone.
                                                                                                        The employee should never have had to learn a lesson, the rules of tournament poker are pretty damn clear.. if it's not a rebuy tournament, you dont get any extra chips! And sensationalising it serves to bring it to both players and the casinos attention so it doesn't happen again, which is of huge benefit to everyone involved.

                                                                                                        Also LOL at your attack over a €50 euro stake while you couldn't care less about free chips being doled out in your €270 tournament. Got your priorities right anyway..
                                                                                                        "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

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                                                                                                          #53
                                                                                                          Dennis,

                                                                                                          I know you as one of the nice guys at any table i play poker at. I think your genuine decency is what is annoying you here, you don't like to see anyone being overly critizised.

                                                                                                          I do however think your posts are out of character tonight, they are coming across as nasty. I don't know if you have history with Rory but better to leave it off this forum. Maybe log out for the night.

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                                                                                                            #54
                                                                                                            Originally posted by dinjo99 View Post
                                                                                                            Dennis,

                                                                                                            I know you as one of the nice guys at any table i play poker at. I think your genuine decency is what is annoying you here, you don't like to see anyone being overly critizised.

                                                                                                            I do however think your posts are out of character tonight, they are coming across as nasty. I don't know if you have history with Rory but better to leave it off this forum. Maybe log out for the night.
                                                                                                            I gotta agree with this. Every time I met you, you are a complete gent. Maybe there's something I'm missing here, really feel like this has spiralled a bit.

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                                                                                                              #55
                                                                                                              Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                                                                              It's not surprising that an exceptional event happened when you were present as you're the biggest whinger on the forum and you generally only post to see what someone thinks of your hard luck story. You just couldn't wait to get this on from early this morning because thats just the way you work. You just love the gossip and seeing people suffer as a result. The only nasty shot is the swipe at the td.

                                                                                                              As to the ace coming anyway, thats not what I understood if the q was shuffled into the pack.
                                                                                                              Unlike yourself, I am at most events. So I will have first hand knowledge of more things than most.

                                                                                                              Maybe 11am is "early" for you.... for me, half my working day has gone.

                                                                                                              I never have "hard luck" stories........and anything that I post is to get a full and unbiased opinion on a situation in the poker/betting world.

                                                                                                              Correct me if i'm wrong but is a forum a medium for open discussion or not? If you believe this should not be discussed about... on a poker forum..... about the biggest 1 day poker event run every month... then why is this forum here?


                                                                                                              And just to help you with your definitions ..Gossip is casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people, typically involving details that are not confirmed as being true...... this is not gossip, This happened!

                                                                                                              The T/D actions where wrong... in a professional capacity... your attacks are on a personal level.....

                                                                                                              This is a poker forum and you think it's wrong to bring this matter up?




                                                                                                              Some of the posters say they know you and your a decent guy but you come across as a very bitter person.
                                                                                                              D15 CASINO, Mulhuddart Village (opp Blanchardstown shopping centre)

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                                                                                                                #56
                                                                                                                I've been back using this site for a handful of days and here is the drama again! It is just brilliant seeing grown up men always bickering... not!

                                                                                                                Synopsis -
                                                                                                                bad ruling -
                                                                                                                should never have given chips -
                                                                                                                dumb mistake and it is seriously highlighted and the club will deal with it -
                                                                                                                more talk is just going to make this spiral even more -
                                                                                                                everyone will be writing down players stacks before every single break from now on! -
                                                                                                                apparently looking at your phone when playing isn't cool

                                                                                                                done -
                                                                                                                now.
                                                                                                                Go big or go homeless.

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                                                                                                                  #57
                                                                                                                  Was really surprised to see this Denis as for the few times I have met you and normally by your posting style you seem to be a nice guy.

                                                                                                                  But for clarification here is Rory's post on the %'s I for 1 second wouldn't doubt that he is on the up and up he is one of the nicest guys you could know at a poker table and also away from it.

                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Downtown
                                                                                                                  I got €400 from Sean and waiting on Dice75 to play EPT and UKIPT before he ships.

                                                                                                                  I had over sold this(not sure by how much as I post this). But I didnt receive all the money. Not sure if I will chase up on it either.

                                                                                                                  If Ciaran fails to cash in UKIPT and EPT then about €550 will be shipped to Barnardos.

                                                                                                                  All in all it was a success, even if I was gutted not to get a run.
                                                                                                                  "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

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                                                                                                                    #58
                                                                                                                    Originally posted by GingerMilla View Post
                                                                                                                    Don't you worry your little head about it, Rory. It's all just a big attention draw imo.

                                                                                                                    The fact is that you don't lose half your stack if the ace doesen't come unless you're bad enough to bluff it off, which you quite possibly are.

                                                                                                                    My attitude is one of an open mind when something of this nature crops up. It may be creating a dangerous precedent as another poster has suggested but I see the refund as a complete one-off. I don't know who the player with the kings is but its important for a club like the fitz to keep people happy and this player has a lot of reasons to feel unjustly treated.

                                                                                                                    Oh and do us a favour, Rory. That hard earned eur 50 which I invested in you to play the deepstack in d4 for charity last February. Is there any chance at all of a final report? How much was raised, etc? Thanks in advance.
                                                                                                                    I was unsure if I should post the thread or not and last night I said I wouldnt as I believed it had been handled correctly in the end. The TD in question has a good relationship with me. When I woke up this morning there was already talk about it so I thought I should set the record straight. It was not attention seeking or self promoting in any way. I thought I was clear that I thought it was a misunderstanding and a mistake and I condemn anybody that called for the TD to be punished in any way or form.

                                                                                                                    In regards to the deepstack. It was clear from your emails at the time that I was too occupied with updates, and you were not happy etc. I took it as advice, and your input was much appreciated. I did give that tournament 100%, as I do every tournament. Incidentally I do not use my ipod as much during tournaments to which I have have had greater success. In no way did I mean to be disrespectful to you or anybody that donated. I can assure you that any surplus money I received was donated to Barnardos. I am sorry you were unhappy with my conduct during that tournament.

                                                                                                                    I do however think that your posts in the "EOM" thread were aimed at me in a nasty way and I won't stand for it. Your innuendo that I stole money from players under the guise of a charity for children is unacceptable to me. I am more than happy to refund you any monies you had invested in me. I genuinely am upset at how this has turned out and hope that no more hostility will come of it.

                                                                                                                    Rory

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                                                                                                                      #59
                                                                                                                      This thread started out asking why a player, reg or not be allowed to be given a 33% agverage top up in FO because of a TD mistake.
                                                                                                                      Which I belive to be a fair point for this thread.
                                                                                                                      Gingermilla then posted what differnce does a 33% addon in a FO matter.

                                                                                                                      We then had a few and I included questioning Gingermilla's comment.

                                                                                                                      Then we had a players intigrutity questioned in the form of a charity event.

                                                                                                                      Now if someone can please tie both these events together id be more than appericatitive.

                                                                                                                      Now if I may speak from a singular point of veiw. I do not know DT ie. Rory nor I do Dennis ie. Gingermilla. If either of you have a problem with 1 another would it not be better to take action then/now and not wait 8 months.

                                                                                                                      This thread started off with what I belive to be a absoulte disgraceful dicision by the TD only to be made worse by a further wrong dicsison by same TD only to be righted by his/her boss.

                                                                                                                      Dennis if may refer to you as, You mite have said what you said in relation to the addon in passive motion but at no point had you the rite to bring any past invlovment with OP or any other poster in same thread into this thread. If you have an issue you would be best advised to contact said person in person. Not wait for I belive to be a cheap shot.
                                                                                                                      Last edited by Ziggin&Zaggin; 01-10-11, 02:24. Reason: just re read what I posted, spelling is absooultley! disgraceful. My bad
                                                                                                                      http://www.sitnpoker.com/?amigosid=18

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                                                                                                                        #60
                                                                                                                        It was 7k btw

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