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Is this hand live? asbent BB all in

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    Is this hand live? asbent BB all in

    this situation happened recently, league playoff in the local place, a guy never turned up and his stack was being blinded away.

    He is eventually all in on his BB. Is his hand live and can he claim the pot, or is it insta mucked once dealt and his chips put into the middle?

    I'm leaning towards the latter but I'm not sure so I thought I would put it up here.

    I know it doesn't really make a difference in practice but I'm a bit of a stickler for the rules and I am curious!

    #2
    His hand is dead imo. Once the last card is dealt, his hand is dead because he's not in his seat.

    Online, his hand is automucked on Pokerstars and is live on the majority of other sites

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      #3
      I would have to say imo its live but if its only a wee pub league or the such it doesnt matter

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        #4
        Hand is dead AINEC

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          #5
          Cheers lads yeah my thinking for having it dead was that every other time his hand is mucked as soon as the cards are dealt, so why would this time be any different just because he hasn't enough chips for the BB?

          But a few others were saying it is live so thought I would put it up to see.

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            #6
            Its very much a local rule. Some online sites rule the hand dead, some online sites rule it live. Some places rule the hand dead, others live.

            The way I look at it is 2 rules are in direct conflict:
            A player must be at his seat in order for him to have a live hand (whether it is first card off the deck or last card to the button doesn't really matter)
            UKIPT Rules:
            "At Your Seat – A player must be at his or her seat when the dealer delivers the first card off of the deck in order to have a live hand."
            When a player is all in and all action is complete all cards must be shown.
            UKIPT Rules:
            "All-In Showdown – All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all action is complete."

            So its really a case of which rule is more "important". If the "At Your Seat" rule is more "important" then the hand is dead. If the "All-In Showdown" is more "important" then the hand is live.

            Its a grey area and one that maybe the senior TD's should clarify!

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              #7
              Originally posted by DonkeyPokerTour View Post

              "At Your Seat – A player must be at his or her seat when the dealer delivers the first card off of the deck in order to have a live hand."
              When a player is all in and all action is complete all cards must be shown.
              UKIPT Rules:

              "All-In Showdown – All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all action is complete."

              Its a grey area and one that maybe the senior TD's should clarify!
              I dont think its a grey area at all. You cannot be all in at showdown if you are not in your seat beforehand!!

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                #8
                Originally posted by ghostface ste View Post
                I dont think its a grey area at all. You cannot be all in at showdown if you are not in your seat beforehand!!
                Thats your interpretation, so your deciding that the "At your seat" rule supersedes the "All in showdown" rule. It can equally be argued the opposite way around.

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                  #9
                  Hand is dead.


                  If a player is absent from the table, and it folds around to the SB, and he flat calls, does the dealer deal the flop? No, the SB wins the pot automatically. Don't see why it should be any different here.


                  These type of rules should all apply with a bit of common sense. Generally speaking, the BB's hand is always dead. An example where the BB's hand is not dead but technically should/could be: BB posts his BB and realises he is all in. He stands up from the table and is technically not at his seat while the cards are being dealt.
                  Technically here, you could rule the BB's hand is dead and he is eliminated from the tournament (standing up while cards are being dealt = dead hand), but in practice, this is too harsh. The BB realises he is all in and has no more action etc. so to rule his hand dead would be against the spirit of the game.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by DonkeyPokerTour View Post
                    Some online sites rule the hand dead, some online sites rule it live.
                    No they don't. Most sites don't fold the hands, not because that's their ruling but rather they haven't got any code in the software to deal with it.
                    PokerStars, being the front runners, have dealt with it.

                    Originally posted by DonkeyPokerTour View Post
                    Thats your interpretation, so your deciding that the "At your seat" rule supersedes the "All in showdown" rule. It can equally be argued the opposite way around.
                    No rule supercedes the other. Why would it have to, what difference would it make.

                    The all-in rule is nothing got to do with it. Both examples say "all action is complete", it never gets to that point. The hand is folded as soon as the deal is made. All the action still has to take place. The hand never gets to the point where it should be turned out.

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                      #11
                      Rules are made to be broken imo
                      One of these days I am either going to quit poker or learn how to play the damn game

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by DonkeyPokerTour View Post
                        Thats your interpretation, so your deciding that the "At your seat" rule supersedes the "All in showdown" rule. It can equally be argued the opposite way around.
                        It supercedes it because it happens first. A hand cannot be shown down if it is dead, and by not being in his seat at deal time, the player's hand was ruled dead before showdown time. Just because he was all in before showdown doesn't mean his hand can't be ruled dead in the meantime.
                        "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

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                          #13
                          I've noticed in sngs when players are sitting out, (prob disconnected) and they are all in on the blind, the board is dealt out as normal, and best hand wins.
                          Many eyebrows raised in the past when they win the hand making a bubble last way longer etc.

                          Don't know if it is the same live. I would assume it should be turned up if anyone calls the BB. You cannot kill an all in hand.
                          ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

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                            #14
                            In a similar vein, lets say the bb is seated when cards are dealt and its checked round to him (ie no raise), and he has left his seat by the time action comes to him, isnt his hand dead in that case as well??

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