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    two small rulings inclosed

    I'm 99% sure I'm correct but I though I'd stick it up to be 100%,

    1st ruling
    UTG tried to raise @ the 200/400 level but didnt announce it & also didnt notice we had just entered a new level so through out 600

    My understanding is if it is 50% of the raise (i.e. 400 + 50% (200) = 600) it stands as a min raise & must complete to 800





    2nd ruling
    heads up on the river, guy1 bets out & guy2 calls. Guy1 shows the winning hand & guy2 goes to muck.
    Guy1 asks to see guy2's cards.

    again a silly normal ruling, my understanding of this is that anyone on the table can ask to see guy2's cards but are still dead if asked to be shown by anyone other than guy1, if he asks the cards are live again.

    #2
    Originally posted by Donkathon View Post
    I'm 99% sure I'm correct but I though I'd stick it up to be 100%,

    1st ruling
    UTG tried to raise @ the 200/400 level but didnt announce it & also didnt notice we had just entered a new level so through out 600

    My understanding is if it is 50% of the raise (i.e. 400 + 50% (200) = 600) it stands as a min raise & must complete to 800





    2nd ruling
    heads up on the river, guy1 bets out & guy2 calls. Guy1 shows the winning hand & guy2 goes to muck.
    Guy1 asks to see guy2's cards.

    again a silly normal ruling, my understanding of this is that anyone on the table can ask to see guy2's cards but are still dead if asked to be shown by anyone other than guy1, if he asks the cards are live again.
    First one is a raise for reasons you mentioned above almost anywhere iv played

    The second ruling basically depends where you play afaik, A few TD's have moved towards letting Guy2 muck his had regardless of guy1 asking, im not even sure what the majority of Irish TD's prefer these days, I definitely think he should have to show fwiw

    Comment


      #3
      Enclosed not inclosed

      Your correct in hand one

      Hand 2, it's considered really bad etiquette to ask to see a losing hand when you scooping but generally he will be require to show if asked.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Donkathon View Post
        I'm 99% sure I'm correct but I though I'd stick it up to be 100%,

        1st ruling
        UTG tried to raise @ the 200/400 level but didnt announce it & also didnt notice we had just entered a new level so through out 600

        My understanding is if it is 50% of the raise (i.e. 400 + 50% (200) = 600) it stands as a min raise & must complete to 800





        2nd ruling
        heads up on the river, guy1 bets out & guy2 calls. Guy1 shows the winning hand & guy2 goes to muck.
        Guy1 asks to see guy2's cards.

        again a silly normal ruling, my understanding of this is that anyone on the table can ask to see guy2's cards but are still dead if asked to be shown by anyone other than guy1, if he asks the cards are live again.
        1st should be considered a raise.

        2nd one is really bad form to ask to see a losing hand, the hand is live as it has not been mucked yet so regardless of who ask to see it if the hand is shown and is then shown to be the winner that player should get the pot.
        "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by tylerdurden94 View Post
          1st should be considered a raise.

          2nd one is really bad form to ask to see a losing hand, the hand is live as it has not been mucked yet so regardless of who ask to see it if the hand is shown and is then shown to be the winner that player should get the pot.
          This.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by The Hurricane View Post
            Enclosed not inclosed

            Your correct in hand one
            You're not Your

            Comment


              #7
              Your second ruling reminded me of one I had a few months back..

              Fitz EOM, I raise from like Mid pos preflop, BB calls. I have a cbet called on the flop, then proceed to check down to the river. BB shows middle pair and is best, I go to muck and this douche down the other end asks for my cards to be shown..

              I throw em in but dealer holds them separate to the muck, and asks me if I want a ruling, otherwise they'll be shown. Ruling comes in I have to show, standard? I was the last aggressor I guess..
              "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Winning! View Post
                Your second ruling reminded me of one I had a few months back..

                Fitz EOM, I raise from like Mid pos preflop, BB calls. I have a cbet called on the flop, then proceed to check down to the river. BB shows middle pair and is best, I go to muck and this douche down the other end asks for my cards to be shown..

                I throw em in but dealer holds them separate to the muck, and asks me if I want a ruling, otherwise they'll be shown. Ruling comes in I have to show, standard? I was the last aggressor I guess..
                Yeah if some clown asks to see your cards they have to be shown, what is strange is that the dealer had to ask did you want a ruling.
                "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hand 1 was in the vodoo & I lol'd at the ruling as it is standard anywhere I've been to uphold the 50% rule

                  Hand 2 was in the star leasure in bray,
                  I wasnt in the hand I was at the table next to it but everyone turned when the table got louder & the td trying to make the ruling which was that he DID NOT have to show

                  I think both ruling are pretty straight forward & lol bad imo
                  Yes asking for someone elses hand to be shown when they are trying to muck is bad form & I dont like it but I still think they were wrong for refusing to show it when requested at show down

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You're understanding is the same as mine in both cases.

                    In examples I've come across in the past re: hand 2 if the winner of the pot asks to see the cards tehy are live and as such can still claim the pot if it turns out they have the best hand. However, if anyone else at the table asks the cards must "touch the muck" before being turned over as they are dead and as such cannot claim the pot even if they make a better hand than the winning cards.

                    Strange ones but that's the way I've heard it before but as all rules in poker they can be subject to TD's interpretation
                    Pining for Wa'erford

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Donkathon View Post
                      Hand 1 was in the vodoo & I lol'd at the ruling as it is standard anywhere I've been to uphold the 50% rule

                      Hand 2 was in the star leasure in bray,
                      I wasnt in the hand I was at the table next to it but everyone turned when the table got louder & the td trying to make the ruling which was that he DID NOT have to show

                      I think both ruling are pretty straight forward & lol bad imo
                      Yes asking for someone elses hand to be shown when they are trying to muck is bad form & I dont like it but I still think they were wrong for refusing to show it when requested at show down
                      Terrible rulings.
                      "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        sorry I forgot to include the ruling for hand1 when revealing those ruling, it was ruled as a call (again I was not involved with the hand but still lol'd)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by sligboi View Post
                          You're understanding is the same as mine in both cases.

                          In examples I've come across in the past re: hand 2 if the winner of the pot asks to see the cards tehy are live and as such can still claim the pot if it turns out they have the best hand. However, if anyone else at the table asks the cards must "touch the muck" before being turned over as they are dead and as such cannot claim the pot even if they make a better hand than the winning cards.

                          Strange ones but that's the way I've heard it before but as all rules in poker they can be subject to TD's interpretation
                          That's a pretty retarded rule.

                          I personally am not a fan of these new rules some TD's implement where even if the cards are mucked and are retrievable and turns out they can win the pot.

                          I think if your cards are mucked they are mucked.
                          "you raise, i kill you" El Tren :{)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by tylerdurden94 View Post
                            I think if your cards are mucked they are mucked.
                            I like this rule as its straight forward & simple, I can recall at least 3 occasions in I think two clubs where the winner of the pot asked to see the muck's hand making it live & it turned out the mucker misread his hand beith the suit or not seeing 4 to a straight out there or something & then because the winning in the hand asked to see it it becomes live again & shipped to the mucker

                            I never ask to see a mucked hand, I'll try to goat someone into showing it when they bet me out of a pot for obvious reasons but never after being/ going to be awarded a pot

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hand 1 is clearly a min-raise,
                              the exception being when a single chip is tossed in which makes it a call.

                              When there is no action on the river the 1st person to act should turn their cards over.
                              When there has been a call the last aggressor displays 1st.
                              The tables right to see a hand ends if it hits the muck
                              which is why the dealer should shield the muck at showdown.
                              Only the TD can override this principle if he deems it to be in the games best interest.

                              Unless a hand has been mucked it must be turned over on request.
                              However if the player already threw his cards forward the following applies.
                              When the request comes from a player not active at showdown
                              the dealer will 1st touch the muck with them & kill the hand before turning them over.
                              If the player who requested to see them has a live hand
                              they should be turned over immediately & remain live meaning they can win the pot.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by DeeBrown View Post
                                Hand 1 is clearly a min-raise,
                                the exception being when a single chip is tossed in which makes it a call.

                                When there is no action on the river the 1st person to act should turn their cards over.
                                When there has been a call the last aggressor displays 1st.
                                The tables right to see a hand ends if it hits the muck
                                which is why the dealer should shield the muck at showdown.
                                Only the TD can override this principle if he deems it to be in the games best interest.

                                Unless a hand has been mucked it must be turned over on request.
                                However if the player already threw his cards forward the following applies.
                                When the request comes from a player not active at showdown
                                the dealer will 1st touch the muck with them & kill the hand before turning them over.
                                If the player who requested to see them has a live hand
                                they should be turned over immediately & remain live meaning they can win the pot.
                                Yep their the rules as I understand them, is this Denise from the fitz btw?

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