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FTP $75 DS, 50BB deep; spot vs good reg.

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    FTP $75 DS, 50BB deep; spot vs good reg.

    1,346 entrants; 162 paid; In 12th and 60 remain; ave 112k; villain is a very good aggro reg with solid results on both FTP and stars. Only been at the table for 20 hands but he was 37/32 3bet 33 agg 1.3...


    Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 1400/2800 Blinds 350 Ante (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    SB (t154688)
    BB (t40516)
    UTG (t31300)
    UTG+1 (t46482)
    Hero (MP1) (t185861)
    MP2 (t107503)
    MP3 (t122822)
    CO (t90743)
    Button (t122603)

    Hero's M: 25.29

    Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7, 6
    2 folds, Hero bets t5600, 4 folds, SB calls t4200, 1 fold

    Flop: (t17150) 6, 7, A (2 players)
    SB checks, Hero bets t11200, SB calls t11200

    Turn: (t39550) 8 (2 players)
    SB bets t16800, Hero calls t16800

    River: (t73150) 9 (2 players)
    SB bets t58800, Hero?
    It's all an illusion

    #2
    I think you gotta call. Theres plenty of missed flush draws and possibly some aq-aj hands. Of course a10 got there but I don't think a10 donks the turn. Pretty weird spot, its really really close but top heavy structures such as these big field tourneys I'm leaning towards a call. Really interesting hand though.
    http://carlmorrissey.blogspot.com/
    http://twitter.com/#!/Moro88

    Comment


      #3
      Well I think you just have to fold this spot as you said he is a good reg but what exactly are you beating by the river?
      The bet on the turn is strange and I understand you call to re-evaluate the hand on the river because if you fully believe your ahead on the turn you raise try get all the money in!
      I definitely fold!!!
      I'm just interested what hands you think are in his range when he leads the turn???

      Comment


        #4
        as played I just let it go at this stage....
        I don't mind the call on the turn, but I'm calling to let it go if he fires the river, especially when it's as horrible as it is...!!! A case can be made for folding and raising aswell!!

        tbh I really hate the min raise in mp with 67 the most...!!!

        Comment


          #5
          Name of reg? weird spot but Id call since he reps so thin and you have 2 sets of matching cards.

          Comment


            #6
            I think i just fold tbh. I dont think you rep too much shoving and suspecy guys like that call off in spots like this a little too often. Im not a big fan of calling cos its pretty damn difficult for him to be bluffing the airball at this stage
            Foldaramus et foldarabimus

            Comment


              #7
              Blech. Fold. Maybe bet less on the flop. Anyone fancy a raise on the turn? Plenty of worse hands call and unless he's got ThJh (or 4h5h) exactly it's unlikely he has a straight.
              "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

              Comment


                #8
                Reasons behine the min pre?
                First reaction was I disliked with 40BB average, but interested to hear thoughts.

                As played, fold river. Can't see him calling a c-bet and leading two streets with air.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by brady23 View Post
                  I'm just interested what hands you think are in his range when he leads the turn???
                  I don't encounter turn donk bets too often after a c-bet really. It can be middle pair block betting or some added equity picked up on the turn. It could be the nuts, a set not wanting to lose value with me checking back for pot control. It's difficult for me to assign a range here really.

                  Originally posted by GAWA9 View Post
                  Name of reg?
                  Fbonacci



                  I'm confused as to what he expects me to call such a big bet with and my hand is so under-repped. Also confused what he could be betting for value the way the board arrived. I know this isn't a regular occurrence but it's a head scratcher all the same.


                  RE the min open pre: This is a standard open for me now at this stage of an mtt. I cant remember the last time I opened for 3x or greater when the antes are in play. I've always opened for 2.5x or less. If blinds were 500/1k/100 my std open would be 2,250 or 2,225. Recently I've just cut out the bs and been min opening. It's just small ball poker. And I've actually noticed that it's been much more effective than before! I see in Maloney's thread that people are criticising his min open pre with KK in EP...there's nothing wrong with it in the slightest. IMO this is just old school thinking but sure whatever works for ya
                  It's all an illusion

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Ughhhh, I wanna hero so bad but fold after a dwell,

                    Think he 3bets with aj +

                    89 gets there. You only really beat a flush draw.

                    His betsizing on the turn is so creepy, and the river too. So tempting the more I look at it.

                    Min is standard pre.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I'd call the river. I'm assuming he wouldn't be value betting with a better 2 pair. Your hand looks like Ax and the board is getting very scary. Also, i don't see a huge number of hands that call flop and bet turn contain a T. Your hand is so underrepped here you really have to call (IMO).
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                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by 72zero View Post
                        I don't encounter turn donk bets too often after a c-bet really. It can be middle pair block betting or some added equity picked up on the turn. It could be the nuts, a set not wanting to lose value with me checking back for pot control. It's difficult for me to assign a range here really.
                        I think this is exactly his range here.

                        His bet on the river though is the real head fuck and as you say:

                        Originally posted by 72zero View Post
                        I'm confused as to what he expects me to call such a big bet with and my hand is so under-repped. Also confused what he could be betting for value the way the board arrived.
                        The easiest answer to this question is this - you are not turning up with a 5 or a 10 here very often, and you are very unlikley to call this bet without one. If he has a 5 or a 10 its a very odd bet, unless he's hoping to induce a hero call. So its prob more likely he doesn't have a 5 or a 10 and is banking on getting this bet through.

                        But that may not be the right answer.

                        I think the two suggested hands are the most likely - 45h and 89. A8 and even a trapping AA also runners, but we have to presume he check calls the river with those.

                        So 45 or 89, maybe a 5 or 10 with two hearts. or a bluff. but what bluffs does he lead the turn with?

                        sick spot, but its prob a fold.

                        do people think the fact that hes a good player make him more or less likely to be putting on some kind of funky move here?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ianmc38 View Post
                          I'd call the river. I'm assuming he wouldn't be value betting with a better 2 pair. Your hand looks like Ax and the board is getting very scary. Also, i don't see a huge number of hands that call flop and bet turn contain a T. Your hand is so underrepped here you really have to call (IMO).
                          I'd expect to see aces up quite a bit tbh.
                          Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                          Comment


                            #14
                            This was my main reason for folding, he was in the blinds and had a decent price to peek with Ax, i'm not saying it was good, but easily happened

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hard to see much you're beating in his value betting range. Imo he's either on a complete move, or you're crushed. A good reg can be bluffing here so it depends on how likely you think that is: you may have two pair but essentially you're only beating a bluff. This line can be a semi bluff on the turn that becomes a bluff on the river when you show little strength but I'd usually just fold.

                              The min pre is 100% std at late stage of an mtt with antes. You're essentially on a semi-bluff steal pre with a hand that is playable post flop if called but gets binned pretty fast if you get reraised pre (unless you strongly suspect a resteal in which case you may proceed to attempt the reresteal ). At that stage of an mtt, I'm minning 100% of my (very wide) opening range: as 72o said, it's std smallball.
                              My poker blog - Doking around in cyberspace

                              Comment


                                #16
                                what's your image like? and so what's your perceived range like? has he an image or history of your play before? your range looks alot like (assuming you dont have crazy image/stats or history with this guy) Ax and his range looks like sets and 2pair hands to a very large degree and all those have you beat. The fact that he bets turn and river makes me think he has higher two pair alot that wants hero call from big Ace but the other scenario is that he was semi bluffing the turn with big equity (pair + OE, pair +OEFD, pair + FD) knowing that he was very unlikely to get jammed on right there by one pair hands (i.e. your perceived range). so alot (not all of course) of his semi bluffing range gets there as well by river.

                                you say he is a good player or decent reg so you can assume he will value bet 2 pair hands here, sets and nuts and will also be capable of bluffing here also as it is scary enough for you to fold a certain amount but also note he will give up his airballs a fair bit of the time as well so all in all i cant see this as being anything other than a fold coz i think your beat way too often here.

                                interersting hand. well played him either way, imo.
                                Last edited by bustamoves; 02-12-10, 05:15. Reason: spelling

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  I'd have probably hero called here anyway but its pretty close. He shouldn't have many better 2 pairs as played imo and he should be turning alot of hands into a bluff on that river. So few 10x in his range too but I suppose he could turn up with 5x a bit as played.If we were a little deeper and we had say ax in the same spot I'd be tempted to jam because he as 10x so little.
                                  "Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson

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