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$11 FO Horrible spot with KK in 4bet pot.

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    $11 FO Horrible spot with KK in 4bet pot.

    This hand is from a $11 Stars tourney. Only 10 or so hands in (think I late regged). Villan has played like 2 hands. So no reads. I've only played 2 hands also.

    I could easily 5 bet pre but I felt flatting kept in a lot of his weaker hands he could 4 bet which could be stuff like TT, JJ, AK, AQ but then fold to 5bet obviously hard to know a range for a complete unknown. Also KK is not too hard to play post flop OOP.

    Not a great flop as JJ, QQ got there and TT has a lot of outs. I obviously had to call that. Could've raised and tried to get it in. But all he would get in there that we beat would be TT and maybe AQ.

    So on the turn. Should I be open shoving with the 2nd nut flush draw as well? That feels like the best play.

    So thoughts welcome on every street. I quite like pre myself. My thinking on the flop was that I might get him to fire again with AK,AQ.



    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 11 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    saw flop

    UTG+1 (t3060)
    MP1 (t1191)
    MP2 (t4329)
    MP3 (t3045)
    CO (t4915)
    Button (t2816)
    SB (t2720)
    Hero (BB) (t2775)
    UTG (t2109)

    Hero's M: 37.00

    Preflop: Hero is BB with K, K
    1 fold, UTG+1 bets t100, 6 folds, Hero raises to t255, UTG+1 raises to t600, Hero calls t345

    Flop: (t1225) J, Q, 9 (2 players)
    Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t800, Hero calls t800

    Turn: (t2825) 2 (2 players)
    Hero ????

    #2
    If your not gonna get em in pre, I'm assuming your a nit who wants to see a non Ace flop & then get em in, but you haven't done that either. Its only a terrible spot now because you are standing down a dark alley with your kacks around your ankles & four homeboys approaching.

    Comment


      #3
      Hero 5bet shoves pre its a 11dollar game i doubt he makes it 600 and then folds to a shove .

      Comment


        #4
        Shove pre all day long...

        Comment


          #5
          Open shoving turn would be really bad. I'd c/f with any semblance of a read that the guy isn't a lunatic.
          Foldaramus et foldarabimus

          Comment


            #6
            A lot of hate for pre. My thinking with the way the stack sizes are is he could easily 4bet fold TT JJ AQ. But you are all probably right that I'm giving him too much credit.

            Turn I was planing on c/f but then i stoved a range for him during my timebank which reckons 64% against AQ+ 99+, I have AK still included for the random spaz factor. But even without AK we still have 59%. I c/c turn btw

            Comment


              #7
              Get it in pre. c/shove flop as played. c/get it in OTT, never folding w 3:1
              "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

              Comment


                #8
                I personally think a shove pre is prolly best because most randoms in an $11 are willing to stack of pre to a 5bet with a range that you crush, also the fact that you are OOP makes it even more of shove as you cant control the size of the pot postflop (ie. when the flop is unfavourable). As flops go this is prolly one of the worst for you it hits your opponents range pretty hard. I dont like the c/get it in line because as u said all that we beat that gets it in is AQ and TT(if he is that spazzy) and thats only 2hands out of a range that contains 6 hands (AA,KhKs,QQ-TT,AQs+,AQo+) so the other four hands have us as a dog, but for the same reason c/f the flop is bad.
                If your numbers are correct (which I assume they are) c/c turn is prolly the most optimal play in the long run, although I dont hate c/f either as while we may have decent equity we are very rarely ahead(same situation as flop)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Despite the colourful put down above - I dont hate not pushing pre as it will keep in a good number of hands you beat. The downside obviously is that it gives hands that would have folded the chance to hit.

                  But, i think if you dont push pre, you should be prepared to get it on the flop. Worst case scenario, he has setted up on the flop, but he may not have. We don't know his cb tendancies, but he will possibly do it with a,k etc on that flop. Even if he has a set, you still have outs, [2 ks, 4 10s, runner runner diams etc].

                  I don't understand [tbh] why you didnt push on the flop - by calling his cb you're putting 1.4k of your stack of 2.7k, you have the second best pre-flop hand - by calling are you trying to ensure he doesn't fold if you push? i.e. are you calling with the intention of getting it anyway?

                  Having not pushed over his pot bet, and being intent on getting it all in anyway, I think i would check again and this time push if he bets. If he doesn't bet, then push on the river.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Forgot to mention the results. I ended up getting it when he shoved the turn. All i was really beating was a spaz or possibly AQ. He had AA no diamond. I hit a 10 on the river.

                    Thanks for the replies

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by GaryT View Post
                      Forgot to mention the results. I ended up getting it when he shoved the turn. All i was really beating was a spaz or possibly AQ. He had AA no diamond. I hit a 10 on the river.

                      Thanks for the replies
                      if you had AK to you flat pre or shove in this excat same spot

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jazzyfish View Post
                        if you had AK to you flat pre or shove in this excat same spot
                        In this spot after being 4 bet by an UTG early in a tournament probably flat.

                        Comment

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