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    Originally posted by pgodkin View Post
    I think $5 is good enough i mean this guy isnt goin to fold to $6 and call $5, anyone think we should check the turn? forgetting what the guy has by check/calling the turn if we underrep our hand on the turn he ma spazz of a couple of bets with missed draws one pair hands???
    I presume you mean $6 is good enough cos he's not going to distinguish 5 from 6 and we want to bet more?

    Definitely don't think we should check turn. So many draws, and so much calue to be had from other hands. This would be one of those spots where checking turn would be an enormous mistake.
    Foldaramus et foldarabimus

    Comment


      Yeah checking the turn would be insanity.

      Comment


        Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
        I presume you mean $6 is good enough cos he's not going to distinguish 5 from 6 and we want to bet more?

        Definitely don't think we should check turn. So many draws, and so much calue to be had from other hands. This would be one of those spots where checking turn would be an enormous mistake.
        Yeah sorry thats what i meant! i think it may its a small bit cheaper to check call in these spots rather than play the aggressor!

        Originally posted by Moneymaker View Post
        Yeah checking the turn would be insanity.
        I also thin if this is a reg he wont expect this line from us as we do it rarely its good to switch it up!

        Comment


          Line Check with JJ Nl £20

          only 2nd hand at the table. Only have ~50 hands on the villain, but he is laggy enough over that, 41/32 with a 4AF.

          Should I C/C this flop?


          No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

          CO ($10)
          Button ($8.38)
          Hero (SB) ($20.10)
          BB ($20)
          UTG ($27.48)
          MP ($19.56)

          Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J
          UTG bets $0.80, 1 fold, CO (poster) calls $0.60, 1 fold, Hero raises $3.40, 1 fold, UTG calls $2.70, 1 fold

          Flop: ($8.10) 6, 9, 10 (2 players)
          Hero bets $6, UTG raises $23.98 (All-In), Hero calls $10.60 (All-In)

          Turn: ($41.30) 3 (2 players, 2 all-in)

          River: ($41.30) 7 (2 players, 2 all-in)

          Total pot: $41.30

          Comment


            Looks fine Emmett. He's shoving tons of draws and we have good blockers and we're getting a great price.

            Comment


              Do we ever put opponent on QT in this spot (no real history)? Would checking behind on the river be the right move (ignoring the results)?

              No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

              saw flop | saw showdown

              UTG (t2685)
              UTG+1 (t3511)
              MP1 (t3015)
              MP2 (t2925)
              Hero (MP3) (t3240)
              CO (t2865)
              Button (t2895)
              SB (t2579)
              BB (t3285)

              Hero's M: 72.00

              Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8, 8
              UTG bets t60, 1 fold, MP1 calls t60, 1 fold, Hero calls t60, 1 fold, Button calls t60, SB calls t45, BB calls t30

              Flop: (t360) A, J, 8 (6 players)
              SB bets t60, BB calls t60, UTG calls t60, MP1 calls t60, Hero raises t500, 2 folds, BB calls t440, 2 folds

              Turn: (t1540) K (2 players)
              BB checks, Hero bets t1250, BB calls t1250

              River: (t4040) 4 (2 players)
              BB checks, Hero bets t1430 (All-In), BB calls t1430

              Total pot: t6900

              Results:
              BB had 10, Q (straight, Ace high).
              Hero had 8, 8 (three of a kind, eights).
              Outcome: BB won t6900
              May you live in interesting times!

              Comment


                no, you played it fine.

                Comment


                  I'm on a boat

                  I'm playing somewhere in the region of 32/27 over a couple 100 hands. Villain plays 12/5, and he's ubernitty postflop too. Can't read hands very well, but in making errors its usually folding when he shouldn't, or calling with KK+ when he shouldn't postflop. Can't imagine him bluffing tbh.

                  No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                  Hero (Button) ($101.90)
                  SB ($97.50)
                  BB ($97.50)
                  UTG ($186.08)

                  Preflop: Hero is Button with 3, 5
                  1 fold, Hero bets $2.62, 1 fold, BB calls $1.62

                  Flop: ($5.74) 3, J, 3 (2 players)
                  BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB calls $4

                  Turn: ($13.74) 6 (2 players)
                  BB checks, Hero bets $9, BB calls $9

                  River: ($31.74) 5 (2 players)
                  BB checks, Hero bets $21, BB raises $42, Hero????

                  Hero really wants to fold. But I have a boat.
                  Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                  Comment


                    Pfffft Its a min raise. He prob has AA. Dont be a vagina

                    Comment


                      He never has AA here
                      Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                      Comment


                        JJ seems most likely holding??
                        May you live in interesting times!

                        Comment


                          Our hand is ridiculously disguised. If he's really THAT tight I suppose i'd just call but it's surely a shove?

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
                            I'm playing somewhere in the region of 32/27 over a couple 100 hands. Villain plays 12/5, and he's ubernitty postflop too. Can't read hands very well, but in making errors its usually folding when he shouldn't, or calling with KK+ when he shouldn't postflop. Can't imagine him bluffing tbh.

                            No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                            Hero (Button) ($101.90)
                            SB ($97.50)
                            BB ($97.50)
                            UTG ($186.08)

                            Preflop: Hero is Button with 3, 5
                            1 fold, Hero bets $2.62, 1 fold, BB calls $1.62

                            Flop: ($5.74) 3, J, 3 (2 players)
                            BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB calls $4

                            Turn: ($13.74) 6 (2 players)
                            BB checks, Hero bets $9, BB calls $9

                            River: ($31.74) 5 (2 players)
                            BB checks, Hero bets $21, BB raises $42, Hero????

                            Hero really wants to fold. But I have a boat.
                            I never fold here just because ppl are crazy at the poker sometimes, and your getting such a good price! U reckon he can turn up with A3s or like 34s?
                            Last edited by Maloney; 13-05-10, 18:34.
                            ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                            I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Moneymaker View Post
                              Our hand is ridiculously disguised. If he's really THAT tight I suppose i'd just call but it's surely a shove?
                              I dont think shoving is good???? TG wanted to fold let alone calling!
                              ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                              I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Maloney333 View Post
                                I dont think shoving is good???? TG wanted to fold let alone calling!
                                We have a full house, we realistically only lose to JJ.

                                Like I said if he's that tight then i'd probably only call, but against 99.9999% of players im shipping here.

                                Comment


                                  Yeah against 99% of people I'd ship, but this guy is in the one percent where its very very very very very clear that shipping is bad. Like what do we see here that we beat against a supernit (I have ~800 hands of supernittiness for him.) I can't imagine a hand we beat here. I really can't. I guess A3s is the only one, and I'd be pretty to very sure he doesn't call with that pre. I honestly can't think of a hand that he does this with that we beat. AA and A3 are the only ones, and both them have super low weightings cos of pre and every other street (especially for AA), whereas JJ and 66 have fuller weightings at each stage.

                                  EDIT: Dunno why people are ruling out 66. I'd say thats slightly more likely than JJ.
                                  Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                  Comment


                                    I was semi messing about AA as in adding a hand you beat to his range and justify a call by it.

                                    I guess villain can have 66 and JJ and he will have them a bit. But we are getting great odds for him to simply misclick and make a retarded bluff or just do something gay and out of character. You said yourself he can't hand read well. I personally wont fold here and I want to know how many hands his stats are over. (edit: Just seen)

                                    I also make turn and river bets bigger as I think this kind of player's range is inelastic for the most part.


                                    Last thing. Shove as you have a blocker to quads and he folds too much.

                                    Comment


                                      TG: What's villian's 3bet%? And what's his fold to cbet?
                                      Last edited by AndyFatBastard; 13-05-10, 19:57.
                                      "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                      Comment


                                        Can't find these hands in my HEM so I'll have to leave them unconverted and just hope they're legible. Both are from the 19.5k gtd 24+2 tournament on FT. 40 players are left out of 900.

                                        Blinds are 1200/2400/300.

                                        Av. stack is 66k, I have c. 55k and villain covers.

                                        Villain is playing 10/7 over 140 hands. I have no other real reads on him.

                                        Folded to Villain in CO and he opens to 6000.

                                        I'm in the sb with 99. Should I 3bet/get it in, call or fold? I know it's a very vague question without further reads, it's just a spot that I feel I play badly.



                                        Hand 2

                                        This happens a few hands later, I have 38k still at 1200/2400/300. Villain has 80k and is playing 20/16 over 140 hands. He has a 3bet stat of 8.5 and has been getting increasingly active. He has a pretty impressive sharkscope too.

                                        I open 22 in the hj to 5.2k, should I just shove or fold instead?

                                        Villain makes it 12k from the sb, he has 3bet me a couple of times and both times I've folded.

                                        Is shoving here akin to setting money on fire?

                                        Sorry about the mess, for some reason my HEM didn't import any level after 1000/2000.

                                        Comment


                                          Horrible turn, worse river vs a total fish

                                          Fish was playing 67/17 with an AF of 0.8 over 80 hands.
                                          Fold is correct play here?

                                          No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                          Hero (UTG) ($31.17)
                                          MP ($7.60)
                                          Button ($20.21)
                                          SB ($20.43)
                                          BB ($20)

                                          Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J
                                          Hero bets $0.70, 1 fold, Button calls $0.70, SB calls $0.60, 1 fold

                                          Flop: ($2.30) 9, 3, 6 (3 players)
                                          SB checks, Hero bets $1.72, 1 fold, SB calls $1.72

                                          Turn: ($5.74) 7 (2 players)
                                          SB checks, Hero bets $4.20, SB calls $4.20

                                          River: ($14.14) 8 (2 players)
                                          SB bets $7.07, Hero folds

                                          Total pot: $14.14

                                          Comment


                                            Carlop:

                                            Call vs this guy, shove vs someone looser.

                                            Emmett:

                                            I probably call but meh, I enjoy paying fish off.
                                            "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                            Comment


                                              carlop: what andyfb said about hand 1. Hand 2 is a really clear fold. He won't be able to fold to shoves with like anything cos you don't have very many chips. If the people left to act after me never call (or only do rarely), I swap 22 out of my opening range for some hgih cards.

                                              Emmet: standard
                                              Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                              Comment


                                                2nd nuts.... must fold?

                                                Villain is 38/15/10.0 over 40 hands. No prior history with him.

                                                No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                SB ($136.50)
                                                BB ($101.40)
                                                UTG ($100.20)
                                                MP ($106.45)
                                                Hero (Button) ($99)

                                                Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, Q
                                                2 folds, Hero bets $3, 1 fold, BB calls $2

                                                Flop: ($6.50) 5, 2, 10 (2 players)
                                                BB bets $3, Hero raises $12.50, BB calls $9.50

                                                Turn: ($31.50) 8 (2 players)
                                                BB checks, Hero checks

                                                River: ($31.50) A (2 players)
                                                BB bets $85.90 (All-In)

                                                Comment


                                                  How's the line?

                                                  Villain is 23/17/3.2 over 1.3k hands.
                                                  Fold to Cbet: 42% / 17% / 67%

                                                  No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                  SB ($105.20)
                                                  BB ($100)
                                                  Hero (UTG) ($125.25)
                                                  MP ($46.10)
                                                  Button ($86.30)

                                                  Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, K
                                                  Hero bets $3, 1 fold, Button calls $3, 2 folds

                                                  Flop: ($7.50) 6, 3, J (2 players)
                                                  Hero bets $6, Button calls $6

                                                  Turn: ($19.50) 6 (2 players)
                                                  Hero bets $15, Button calls $15

                                                  River: ($49.50) 4 (2 players)
                                                  Hero bets $40,

                                                  Comment


                                                    Why check the turn?

                                                    Originally posted by jimbling View Post
                                                    Villain is 38/15/10.0 over 40 hands. No prior history with him.

                                                    No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                    SB ($136.50)
                                                    BB ($101.40)
                                                    UTG ($100.20)
                                                    MP ($106.45)
                                                    Hero (Button) ($99)

                                                    Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, Q
                                                    2 folds, Hero bets $3, 1 fold, BB calls $2

                                                    Flop: ($6.50) 5, 2, 10 (2 players)
                                                    BB bets $3, Hero raises $12.50, BB calls $9.50

                                                    Turn: ($31.50) 8 (2 players)
                                                    BB checks, Hero checks

                                                    River: ($31.50) A (2 players)
                                                    BB bets $85.90 (All-In)
                                                    May you live in interesting times!

                                                    Comment


                                                      Originally posted by jimbling View Post
                                                      Villain is 23/17/3.2 over 1.3k hands.
                                                      Fold to Cbet: 42% / 17% / 67%

                                                      No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                      SB ($105.20)
                                                      BB ($100)
                                                      Hero (UTG) ($125.25)
                                                      MP ($46.10)
                                                      Button ($86.30)

                                                      Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, K
                                                      Hero bets $3, 1 fold, Button calls $3, 2 folds

                                                      Flop: ($7.50) 6, 3, J (2 players)
                                                      Hero bets $6, Button calls $6

                                                      Turn: ($19.50) 6 (2 players)
                                                      Hero bets $15, Button calls $15

                                                      River: ($49.50) 4 (2 players)
                                                      Hero bets $40,
                                                      hes not folding a jack

                                                      Comment


                                                        Originally posted by jimbling View Post
                                                        Villain is 23/17/3.2 over 1.3k hands.
                                                        Fold to Cbet: 42% / 17% / 67%

                                                        No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                        SB ($105.20)
                                                        BB ($100)
                                                        Hero (UTG) ($125.25)
                                                        MP ($46.10)
                                                        Button ($86.30)

                                                        Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, K
                                                        Hero bets $3, 1 fold, Button calls $3, 2 folds

                                                        Flop: ($7.50) 6, 3, J (2 players)
                                                        Hero bets $6, Button calls $6

                                                        Turn: ($19.50) 6 (2 players)
                                                        Hero bets $15, Button calls $15

                                                        River: ($49.50) 4 (2 players)
                                                        Hero bets $40,

                                                        The turn barrel is so bad added to by the fact he never folds to turn barrels. Its actually so bad, it could be good. But probably not.

                                                        Comment


                                                          Comments on all streets welcome

                                                          No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                          UTG ($31.68)
                                                          MP ($16.62)
                                                          CO ($11.11)
                                                          Button ($19.62)
                                                          Hero (SB) ($20)
                                                          BB ($20.30)

                                                          Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, 6
                                                          3 folds, Button bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.70, 1 fold

                                                          Flop: ($1.80) 4, 2, 5 (2 players)
                                                          Hero checks, Button bets $1.35, Hero calls $1.35

                                                          Turn: ($4.50) A (2 players)
                                                          Hero checks, Button bets $4.50, Hero raises $17.85 (All-In)

                                                          This is vs a guy with 4AF and 44/30 over 160 hands

                                                          Comment


                                                            Originally posted by emmet02 View Post
                                                            Comments on all streets welcome

                                                            No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                            UTG ($31.68)
                                                            MP ($16.62)
                                                            CO ($11.11)
                                                            Button ($19.62)
                                                            Hero (SB) ($20)
                                                            BB ($20.30)

                                                            Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, 6
                                                            3 folds, Button bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.70, 1 fold

                                                            Flop: ($1.80) 4, 2, 5 (2 players)
                                                            Hero checks, Button bets $1.35, Hero calls $1.35

                                                            Turn: ($4.50) A (2 players)
                                                            Hero checks, Button bets $4.50, Hero raises $17.85 (All-In)

                                                            This is vs a guy with 4AF and 44/30 over 160 hands
                                                            I fold pf but I'm a massive nit from the SB.

                                                            I think I c/raise the flop to around 3.30 or so and barrel most turns.

                                                            As played, I'd be very wary of his full pot bet on turn, and it would make me think he doesn't plan on folding very often. Then again c/folding seems kind of ghey.

                                                            Against a guy with those stats I guess the crai is ok, provided you've seen him barrel before, but I wouldn't be thrilled about it.

                                                            Comment


                                                              Should I call on the turn again, and raise the river??

                                                              Its a very bricky turn, unlikely to have added to either of our hands.

                                                              I'm losing his valuebet (and potentially pot commiting) on the river, and there aren't any draws there to be afraid of.

                                                              I'm pretty sure I have already answered my question with the above reasoning, but I'll still post the hand anyway.

                                                              No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                              Hero (Button) ($41.10)
                                                              SB ($20.40)
                                                              BB ($9.80)
                                                              UTG ($20.75)
                                                              MP ($20.24)
                                                              CO ($19.30)

                                                              Preflop: Hero is Button with 2, 2
                                                              UTG calls $0.20, 1 fold, CO bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.40

                                                              Flop: ($2.10) 2, K, 10 (3 players)
                                                              UTG checks, CO bets $1.60, Hero calls $1.60, 1 fold

                                                              Turn: ($5.30) 3 (2 players)
                                                              CO bets $4, Hero raises $9.20, 1 fold

                                                              Total pot: $13.30
                                                              Also, here's another hand I played vs same villain. Any thoughts / abuse very welcome as always.

                                                              No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (3 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                              Hero (SB) ($21.70)
                                                              BB ($20.34)
                                                              Button ($37.40)

                                                              Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, 6
                                                              Button bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.50, BB calls $0.40

                                                              Flop: ($1.80) 6, 8, 9 (3 players)
                                                              Hero checks, BB checks, Button bets $1.35, Hero raises $3.20, 1 fold, Button raises $7.65, Hero calls $5.80

                                                              Turn: ($19.80) 7 (2 players)
                                                              Hero checks, Button bets $14.85, Hero calls $12.10 (All-In)

                                                              River: ($44) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

                                                              Total pot: $44

                                                              Comment


                                                                Hand 1 - your line is wayyyy to strong. Its okay vs a retard but I just c/c and c/shove river.

                                                                Hand 2:

                                                                chk/call flop and play from there. I dislike c/r alot with bottom pair and open ender to non nutted straight. This hand is perfect in our c/call range. Basically we are in bad shape vs a shove/3bet on this flop.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  It always amazes me how many players at mid stakes spazz out when faced with passive play. It's the standard bet/check/bet line on a dud river in the hope that your opponent had a draw, missed and will fold. It's so obvious to me now. My 2nd pair is good so often.
                                                                  "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    Originally posted by RoadSweeper View Post
                                                                    The turn barrel is so bad added to by the fact he never folds to turn barrels. Its actually so bad, it could be good. But probably not.
                                                                    I guess his stats just jumped out at me. That he called so many turns, but folded a huge amount on the river. I figured that he folds to rivers more when put under pressure, i.e. when in bigger pots.

                                                                    Therefore if I check the turn and bet the river he is more likely to call. But if I bet the turn to build the pot there is a much stronger chance he'll fold to the river bet.

                                                                    Obviously I could have just given up after the flop bet, but we cant do that every time now can we.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      Originally posted by jimbling View Post

                                                                      Obviously I could have just given up after the flop bet, but we cant do that every time now can we.
                                                                      We obviously don't give up everytime but barreling a turn card which pairs the board is in general a terrible idea once called on that flop.

                                                                      Opr

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        you don't give any reads but if he's competent i think the bu range when he bets there is super strong.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          villain is 33/11/1.8 over 210 hands

                                                                          No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                          Button ($120.80)
                                                                          Hero (SB) ($103)
                                                                          BB ($100)
                                                                          UTG ($191.85)

                                                                          Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J
                                                                          BB bets $3.50, UTG calls $3.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50

                                                                          Flop: ($11) 6, J, 7 (3 players)
                                                                          Hero checks, BB bets $6, UTG calls $6, Hero raises $24, 1 fold, UTG calls $18

                                                                          Turn: ($65) 9 (2 players)
                                                                          Hero bets $35, UTG calls $35

                                                                          River: ($135) 2 (2 players)
                                                                          Hero checks, UTG bets $129.35 (All-In),

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            Originally posted by jimbling View Post
                                                                            villain is 33/11/1.8 over 210 hands

                                                                            No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (4 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                            Button ($120.80)
                                                                            Hero (SB) ($103)
                                                                            BB ($100)
                                                                            UTG ($191.85)

                                                                            Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J
                                                                            BB bets $3.50, UTG calls $3.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50

                                                                            Flop: ($11) 6, J, 7 (3 players)
                                                                            Hero checks, BB bets $6, UTG calls $6, Hero raises $24, 1 fold, UTG calls $18

                                                                            Turn: ($65) 9 (2 players)
                                                                            Hero bets $35, UTG calls $35

                                                                            River: ($135) 2 (2 players)
                                                                            Hero checks, UTG bets $129.35 (All-In),
                                                                            I think I raise more on the flop (at least 30). But I also hate boards with draws so probably would have led for most of the pot anyway. I would have bet more on the turn too. I assume you called the river and the FD got there?

                                                                            (But that's way higher than I play so what would I know anyway )
                                                                            May you live in interesting times!

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              I'd bet almost full pot on that turn, Jimbling. That bet was way too small.
                                                                              "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                Yeah bet more on the turn and shove the river yourself imo
                                                                                "In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  Im confused did utg limp and bb raised??

                                                                                  What range are u giving utg btw? As said before pot turn pretty much.
                                                                                  ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                                                                                  I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    Free Coaching?

                                                                                    http://www.leggopoker.com/forums/mic...ted-11166.html.

                                                                                    PSA: I am a mod on Leggo but I have NO input whatsoever to do with the coaching forum.

                                                                                    @mods - I am only posting this as a heads up to the small stake players in here in a non-pimping capacity. If you guys aren't happy with it then feel free to remove it.

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      Well he either has to bet small/small on turn and river or shove the turn.
                                                                                      Theres only 75 to go in and 65 in the middle.
                                                                                      Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                                                                                      I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                                                                                      None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
                                                                                        Well he either has to bet small/small on turn and river or shove the turn.
                                                                                        Theres only 75 to go in and 65 in the middle.

                                                                                        Ya, this was my problem. And the bet on the turn still made him make a mistake. I mean there is nothing in his hand that he has the right odds to call. I thought it was the right play to be honest. He's going to fold to a shove.

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                                                                                          Originally posted by Maloney333 View Post
                                                                                          Im confused did utg limp and bb raised??
                                                                                          wow, just noticed that...wtf is that about, something must have gone wrong with the conversion. I'll have a look there.

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                                                                                            okay, there's something wrong with the flopturnriver converter.... it keeps getting it wrong.

                                                                                            In the hand I posted. BB is actually UTG and villain in the hand is the button.

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                                                                                              Originally posted by Sledgejammer View Post
                                                                                              Yeah bet more on the turn and shove the river yourself imo
                                                                                              as said in the other post, betting more on the turn wasnt really an option. it was that size, or shove the lot on the turn.

                                                                                              I suppose there is a question over the flop raise size. If that was bigger I could have shoved the turn comfortably.

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                                                                                                Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
                                                                                                Well he either has to bet small/small on turn and river or shove the turn.
                                                                                                Theres only 75 to go in and 65 in the middle.
                                                                                                Yeah fair point. Shoving the turn is unpalatable since he folds a lot of weak draws and pair hands, but I think his range contains too many strong draws for us to worry about losing value.

                                                                                                I guess that means we should have raised more on the flop. Presing the pot button would have given us what? (3x6) +6 + 11 = $35 (is that right?) That seems about right given the nature of the board, and then the turn plays itself.
                                                                                                "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

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                                                                                                  Villain is 24/20/5.0/231 (Obviously pretty small sample)
                                                                                                  3b%: Overall:4%, SB:2%

                                                                                                  Seems like a solid player, has not got out of line yet.

                                                                                                  No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                                                  SB ($138.35)
                                                                                                  BB ($228.30)
                                                                                                  UTG ($121.80)
                                                                                                  Hero (MP) ($107.35)
                                                                                                  Button ($74.45)

                                                                                                  Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, Q
                                                                                                  1 fold, Hero bets $3, 1 fold, SB raises $9.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $7

                                                                                                  Flop: ($21) 2, 5, 5 (2 players)
                                                                                                  SB bets $14, Hero calls $14

                                                                                                  Turn: ($49) 8 (2 players)
                                                                                                  SB checks, Hero checks

                                                                                                  River: ($49) 8 (2 players)
                                                                                                  SB bets $35, Hero ?

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                                                                                                    Originally posted by jimbling View Post
                                                                                                    Villain is 24/20/5.0/231 (Obviously pretty small sample)
                                                                                                    3b%: Overall:4%, SB:2%

                                                                                                    Seems like a solid player, has not got out of line yet.

                                                                                                    No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

                                                                                                    SB ($138.35)
                                                                                                    BB ($228.30)
                                                                                                    UTG ($121.80)
                                                                                                    Hero (MP) ($107.35)
                                                                                                    Button ($74.45)

                                                                                                    Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, Q
                                                                                                    1 fold, Hero bets $3, 1 fold, SB raises $9.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $7

                                                                                                    Flop: ($21) 2, 5, 5 (2 players)
                                                                                                    SB bets $14, Hero calls $14

                                                                                                    Turn: ($49) 8 (2 players)
                                                                                                    SB checks, Hero checks

                                                                                                    River: ($49) 8 (2 players)
                                                                                                    SB bets $35, Hero ?
                                                                                                    snap call and Id bet the turn for value

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                                                                                                      His 3b looks small over that sample, but I think I'd still felt it preflop cos I'd pay more attention to his VPIP/pfr than 3b over that sample.

                                                                                                      Because of that, I think I'd play every street differently, apart from river, which is a clear call.
                                                                                                      Foldaramus et foldarabimus

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                                                                                                        Yeah I'd get it in pre and call now
                                                                                                        "In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)

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                                                                                                          Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
                                                                                                          His 3b looks small over that sample, but I think I'd still felt it preflop cos I'd pay more attention to his VPIP/pfr than 3b over that sample.

                                                                                                          Because of that, I think I'd play every street differently, apart from river, which is a clear call.
                                                                                                          QQ is at bottom of his range for 3betting. You might put in JJ, but I highly doubt it. QQ+, AK for me.... so why felt it preflop?

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                                                                                                            On the river I think I'm up against AA/KK for value or AK as a bluff.

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                                                                                                              Originally posted by jimbling View Post
                                                                                                              QQ is at bottom of his range for 3betting. You might put in JJ, but I highly doubt it. QQ+, AK for me.... so why felt it preflop?
                                                                                                              You'd need a far far higher sample size to make comments like that with any level of certainty. As TG says, his vpip/pfr are more reliable over this sample and imply an a standard aggro reg who could easily have a much larger 3bet% over time
                                                                                                              "In the world, there are many kings but there is only one God. I am God, I am El Tren" :{)

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                                                                                                                Call is obviously standard on the river having got here, but some little part of me is thinking a shove would be pretty sick as it's the most FOS line ever and could conceivably get looked up quite light on the river, though obviously valuetowning yourself the times villain has AA and KK.

                                                                                                                I'd also get it in pf, and would have bet the turn as played.

                                                                                                                Edit: Actually, after a couple of minutes consideration there would be nothing sick about shoving the river, it would be burning money. Glad I brainfarted here and not while actually playing.
                                                                                                                Last edited by carlop; 19-05-10, 14:45.

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                                                                                                                  Originally posted by Sledgejammer View Post
                                                                                                                  You'd need a far far higher sample size to make comments like that with any level of certainty. As TG says, his vpip/pfr are more reliable over this sample and imply an a standard aggro reg who could easily have a much larger 3bet% over time
                                                                                                                  Well, I've learned, the hard way, even with low sample sizes, to believe low frequency 3bettors, especially oop. I cant think of how many times I have gotten it all in with QQ and looked back at the hand and decided I shouldn't have felted against that tight 3bet range.

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                                                                                                                    Just checked his stats againt to confirm my thoughts.

                                                                                                                    He has had 30 occasions where he could have 3bet from the SB. He has done so once prior to this hand.

                                                                                                                    From what I've learned, these types of players only 3bet AA/KK oop. Normally even call with AK and QQ/JJ.
                                                                                                                    Obviously it is still relatively small sample, but when kind of certain, but still unsure.... surely you should er on the side of caution?

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                                                                                                                      does AA/KK check the turn though?

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                                                                                                                        Originally posted by carlop View Post
                                                                                                                        Edit: Actually, after a couple of minutes consideration there would be nothing sick about shoving the river, it would be burning money. Glad I brainfarted here and not while actually playing.
                                                                                                                        The only reason to shoving the river would be a complete bluff and to get him to fold AA/KK. If he's a solid player, the shove on the river will look like 56s. I woudnt normally call a 3 bet with that, but not sure how well he knows me. I would be looser than him though.

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                                                                                                                          Originally posted by bubbleking View Post
                                                                                                                          does AA/KK check the turn though?
                                                                                                                          Ya, a lot of solid players at this level will check an overpair on the turn here. Serves two purposes. Keeps the pot a bit smaller and in your control. Gives villain (me) a false sense of security. Your bet on the river will get called more and you will get bluffed at more often on the river also.

                                                                                                                          EDIT: Actually with being oop its not as regular as all that... but still done alot. I love doing it against Floaters..... and I may be seen as a floater.
                                                                                                                          Last edited by jimbling; 19-05-10, 14:53.

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