Bad form by Paddy Power?

[eoghan104]

Just wanted a few opinions on this?

I have a lot of time for Paddy Power and do most of my punting with them in the shops. I had a bit of trouble with them the other night that leads to me not wanting to ever do a bet with them again and I want to know am I being unfair.

I was watching the Masters with some of the lads on Saturday night and someone commented that Mickleson was 9/2. I fancied a piece of that as did another guy so we gave our friend €40 to do the bet for us on his account. He obliges and straight after bet confirmation goes through he realises he miss clicked and backed Tiger at 4s. STRAIGHT AWAY he rang customer service and asked could the bet be changed. In the 30 second window between the bet made and the call absolutely nothing happened on the course and neither player hit a shot.

After much debate on the phone he was told that the bet could not be changed as it was in running and that’s just the rules full stop. My friend felt that the person on the phone was very rude and abrupt and later called back and closed his account he was so pissed off. The other guy who was involved also rang and closed his account. The two guys have used the accounts regularly for the guts of ten years and both are the types of punters that PP should love to have on their books. Both opened new Boylesports accounts yesterday and are done with PP.

Now the question is are we overreacting and in fact PP’s hands were tied or should there have been some leeway here as a courtesy to a good customer on what in essence is a meaningless €40 bet?

Opinions would be appreciated.

[Solskjaer]

My 2 cents.
I think you guys are over reacting, betting in running is a dynamic betting market one shot just off the fairway effects the price, a simple 30 foot long putt that hit's a slope and runs away can effect the betting. In my view 'betting in running' can't really be changed as the game is in play. Just because neither Tiger nor Mickleson did anything in that time does not mean their odd/schances are unchanged. It's a pretty silly mistake to make considering these online sites ask you to confirm your bet before placing it.

[Wallop Nuts]

It is really frustrating when you get bad treatment on the phone like that. I can understand your mates closing down their accounts. Its what i would have wanted to do in the heat of the moment too.
However, it probably was a bit rash and also weakens your mates negotiating position. Consider PPs perspective, it is understandable that the general rule is that all bets stand: Betting markets change in a flash. Even if the guy on the phone was in a position to verify that nothing had changed, it is probably a dangerous precedent to set.
That being said, you would expect them to show good will in your case.
I would advise you to email Paddy customer servce. Get the times of the two calls from the phone and ask them to check the recordings.
As you did in your post, make it absolutely clear that it was a simple misunderstanding which you tried to correct before the market changed.
I think that after somebody in PP in authority has reviewed the situation (which is backed up by clear recorded evidence of your mates intnetions), you can reasonably expect them to switch the stake on to Mickelson. I would be really surprised if they didn't. If so, and if I was in your shoes PP would need to be extraordinary convincing to stop me taking my business elsewhere.

[Guest]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePxfn2FVc0w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePxfn2FVc0w[/ame]

[CHDad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePxfn2FVc0w

http://www.pown.it/3209

[BrianByrne]

Wrong thread

[VenturePunter]

the rules are clear on this. bet stands. a shop manager might change the bet for a regular if he is in a good mood but no bookmaker will do it over the phone. you should be using betfair anyway.

[Emmet]

Its a bit harsh, but I don't think there's any real problem with them not changing the bet.

Human Error or the Fat Finger effect is to blame for a lot of this stuff, when it happens to the business, and people take advantage, its a lot harder for them to have any comeback.

However, I reckon that if you contact them about it, they will probably offer you a free bet to the value of the ones thats in question here.

[White Knight]

In bets like these, the agent on the phone would not always have instant access to the full sporting event details to be able to make a decision that "absolutely nothing happened on the course" etc.

The term from the site would be:

10. It is the customer's responsibility to ensure that all the details of their bets are correct so it is in the interest of the customer to ensure that they have enough time in which to place the bet. Once the transaction has been confirmed bets cannot be cancelled by the customer.

The reason being it takes 3 different clicks of "bet" in 3 different areas to place a bet in running. So the customer should be verifying their own bets in each section. I would be kicking my mate for making a howler of an error imo

[Guest]

The reason being it takes 3 different clicks of "bet" in 3 different areas to place a bet in running. So the customer should be verifying their own bets in each section. I would be kicking my mate for making a howler of an error imo

This pretty much

[TommyGunne]

I think it would be very unreasonable to expect PP to change your bet for you. In-running markets are just so volatile, and even if neither of those players had hit a shot in the meantime, price can have fluctuated wildly still.

You can always try to explain it to them, but if they do end up giving you something back, it is not to be expected, but an exceptionally generous move from PP. I suspect that you'd be feeling as if it is deserved if you get some form of recompense, but you most definitely shouldn't be.

[Starvin Marvin]

Over reaction, betting misclicks have happened to most people, live and learn etc.

[Wallop Nuts]

I agree that Paddy Power are not obliged to show any good will here. The rule is yada yada............ Fair enough.
IMO the crux of the matter is. Guy place bet, guy makes mistake and contacts PP to rectify error. So assuming the following conditions apply:

1) The phone log confirms that he immediately tried to rectify his mistake
2) The odds on the mistaken bet (Tiger winning) did not drift out

Both of these are easily verified ( Many years ago I worked for Terry Rogers and even back then all market moves were time stamped)

Paddy has a customer service department. If a complaint is made, surely it will be someone's job to look at this. So assuming the above is confirmed, why shouldn't the lads get paid? To be fair to Paddy Power, They are customer focused. I have no doubt that they will do their best to be fair here.

[White Knight]

If a complaint is made, surely it will be someone's job to look at this. So assuming the above is confirmed, why shouldn't the lads get paid? To be fair to Paddy Power, They are customer focused. I have no doubt that they will do their best to be fair here.

A complaint (about what - a stupid mistake by a mate?) like ... My mate was trying to put on a bet on Phil Mickleson to win at 9/2 instead he bet on Tiger Woods. I know he clicked 3 windows to bet on it: I know he entered the stake beside Tiger's name, I know it listed Tiger Woods and his odds in the 2nd section and I know it actually asks the question in a pop up box with the selection (Tiger Woods) and price listed "Are you sure you want to make this bet?"

Oh and I know its in your terms and conditions that bets cannot be cancelled but ... go on ... it was an honest mistake guv ...

[eoghan104]

Looking at it now I suppose it was a bit of an over reaction from the lads. At the end of the day the manner in which the phone call was handled didnt help.

Ah well whats done is done and its a pity for all parties that the lads accounts are now perma closed.

[Angry-Ball]

consider youtself lucky that it wasn't a few hundered a man ye were putting on.


fwiw there is nothing more annoying than when you make a mistake and you know that its your fault and you ring customer service knowing full well that there is little chance of them doing anything for you and then telling you that it was your mistake to begin with and that they can't nor are they under any obligation to do anything for you.== tilt

if you were in mexico you could shout BASTARDOES!!!!!, EL CUNTOS!!!!, YOU SON OF A MOTHERLESS PIG!!!!! down the phone at them

[Wallop Nuts]

A complaint (about what - a stupid mistake by a mate?) like ... My mate was trying to put on a bet on Phil Mickleson to win at 9/2 instead he bet on Tiger Woods. I know he clicked 3 windows to bet on it: I know he entered the stake beside Tiger's name, I know it listed Tiger Woods and his odds in the 2nd section and I know it actually asks the question in a pop up box with the selection (Tiger Woods) and price listed "Are you sure you want to make this bet?"

Oh and I know its in your terms and conditions that bets cannot be cancelled but ... go on ... it was an honest mistake guv ...

Bookies (incl Paddy Power) have taken bets that they shouldn't have. These bets were confirmed by staff but not honoured when the payout was apparantly due.

In these situations the line given was the bet was taken by mistake so we won't pay out. So why shouldn't Eoghan124's mate at least ask them to look at it?

Oh and I know its in your terms and conditions that bets cannot be cancelled but ... go on ... it was an honest mistake guv


tell that to this guy:

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2008/04/paddy-power-refuse-to-pay-out.html

or this guy

http://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/01/bookie-refuses-pay-7-million-snow-bet/

Anyway, he asked for other peoples views. Thats mine. I accept tha majority feel that his mate made a mistake and he should take it on the chin.

[robinblinds]

Next time I misclick call a €40 bet into me instead of folding, I'm asking the guy to give me back the money or I'm not playing with him again.

[kincsem]

People can close their accounts if they want (my guess is you can withdraw the balance and the account remains dormant).

As said by another poster above your comment that "nothing happened" between placing the bet and phoning a second time is not true. Events happen both on the course and in the betting market in an "in play" market continuously.

If Woods eagled after you "misclicked" and your player double-bogeyed you would not have phoned a second time to try to cancel the bet.

I laid the Germans for the World Cup recently at 15.5 by mistake when I meant to back them. My "misclick" mistake. I then backed the Germans for more which had the effect of cancelling the lay bet.

Your mistake. Live with it. Don't blame others. You / your friends response was childish.

[AndyFatBastard]

I wouldn't log a complaint about a member of PP's staff following their own rules, but if you do feel the agent was genuinely rude then you should do something about it. The call may have been recorded and the agent in question might get into trouble.

[The Situation]

I think it would be very unreasonable to expect PP to change your bet for you. In-running markets are just so volatile, and even if neither of those players had hit a shot in the meantime, price can have fluctuated wildly still.

You can always try to explain it to them, but if they do end up giving you something back, it is not to be expected, but an exceptionally generous move from PP. I suspect that you'd be feeling as if it is deserved if you get some form of recompense, but you most definitely shouldn't be.

Pretty much this.

It would also be madness to never bet again with PP as they offer up so many mouth watering specials and you'd be only screwing yourself over in the long run. You should have just laid Tiger off if you didn't fancy it.

[Opr]

Next time I misclick call a €40 bet into me instead of folding, I'm asking the guy to give me back the money or I'm not playing with him again.

If the guy was a loser to me heads up over a very long period and continued to always give me action I would ship him the money back in a heartbeat.

Some of the short sighted nonsense is unreal itt.

Opr

[robinblinds]

If the guy was a loser to me heads up over a very long period and continued to always give me action I would ship him the money back in a heartbeat.

Some of the short sighted nonsense is unreal itt.

Opr

lots of variables in there and not many players as you describe above

[eagle eye]

I've had dealing with Paddy Power in the past as a result of which I shut my account with them. It wasn't a similar case in that I misclicked something and rang up looking to change my bet. It was about me clicking on something and it winning and being told I didn't bet on that market.

I was told by customer service rep that I was wrong and that PP couldn't make a mistake like that. When I explained to her how it could actually happen and how the person that did it would be quick to deny it they just re-iterated the same line that I made a mistake. I took great offense to being told this without any research being done. After a week of complaints it was clear they were sticking by their line and I shut my account. I actually won money on the bet I placed but it was far less than I would have won had the correct bet been taken.

Now this is about customer service more than the actual problem. If you feel badly treated by people employed to be courteous and helpful then you should deffo shut your account and move on to another bookmaker.

As far as the in-running market bets go, I see no reason why a bookmaker could not cancel the bet for you if the price is still the same when you try to have it cancelled.
Often in the past I've tried to place a bet in-running and it goes suspended, comes live again and I go in for it again and it goes suspended again before I get my bet placed.

The best thing to do though is save yourself all the hassle and get a Betfair account as has been mentioned previously.

[Guest]

Just wanted a few opinions on this?



After much debate on the phone he was told that the bet could not be changed as it was in running and that’s just the rules full stop. My friend felt that the person on the phone was very rude and abrupt and later called back and closed his account he was so pissed off.

Opinions would be appreciated.

Much debate about something where your friend did not have a leg to stand on?

I have a feeling that the PP employee found your mate quite rude as well or was he the model of good manners and virtue?

Imo: PP would be mad to allow the change of bet
Its not a "much debate" issue

Was the person actually rude or was your mate taking no for an answer as a slight on his character?

This country was a better place when staff were allowed to be a little rude to customers who were 100% wrong and would not take no for an answer.
Its not the states

As for abrupt; 100% non issue with other people ringing in to make bets, the PP person can hardly stay on the phone with your friend all day when your friend does not have a leg to stand on can he/she?

imo: your mates overreacted!
Id imagine the person in PP was more direct than rude in a conversation that was 100% not a "much debate on the phone" issue

[eoghan104]

Much debate about something where your friend did not have a leg to stand on?

I have a feeling that the PP employee found your mate quite rude as well or was he the model of good manners and virtue?

Imo: PP would be mad to allow the change of bet
Its not a "much debate" issue

Was the person actually rude or was your mate taking no for an answer as a slight on his character?

This country was a better place when staff were allowed to be a little rude to customers who were 100% wrong and would not take no for an answer.
Its not the states

As for abrupt; 100% non issue with other people ringing in to make bets, the PP person can hardly stay on the phone with your friend all day when your friend does not have a leg to stand on can he/she?

imo: your mates overreacted!
Id imagine the person in PP was more direct than rude in a conversation that was 100% not a "much debate on the phone" issue

Well you are entitled to your opinion but GTFO to be honest with the whole tone of that post.

Its quite clear that this isnt a case where my mate had "no leg to stand on". It was an honest mistake that could have been rectified. I was in the room when he was on the call and yes he was polite.

[Guest]

Well you are entitled to your opinion but GTFO to be honest with the whole tone of that post.

Its quite clear that this isnt a case where my mate had "no leg to stand on". It was an honest mistake that could have been rectified. I was in the room when he was on the call and yes he was polite.

Well if he was polite maybe he should make a complaint as one of the lads said earlier, call might well be recorded

but no; 100% no leg to stand on with regard to the bet im afraid,
buyer beware when it comes to in running bets and the likes, has to be id imagine

+ tone of the post was for a reason, its direct not rude, not what you wanted to hear so may come off as rude, just trying to prove a point (probably badly) that if we get a no sometimes it will come off as an FU

[Solskjaer]

Just wondering Eoghan if this error occurred on Betfair what would your reaction have been if betfairs reply was similar.


In terms of rudeness, anyone in customer service who is rude should be fired.

[eoghan104]

Well if he was polite maybe he should make a complaint as one of the lads said earlier, call might well be recorded

but no; 100% no leg to stand on with regard to the bet im afraid,
buyer beware when it comes to in running bets and the likes, has to be id imagine

+ tone of the post was for a reason, its direct not rude, not what you wanted to hear so may come off as rude, just trying to prove a point (probably badly) that if we get a no sometimes it will come off as an FU

Your post wasn't polite and just because you say he had no leg to stand on doesn't make it so.

Thanks for the input though.

[eoghan104]

Just wondering Eoghan if this error occurred on Betfair what would your reaction have been if betfairs reply was similar.


In terms of rudeness, anyone in customer service who is rude should be fired.

I don't use Betfair Willie (I know I should) so I dont really know the answer to that one.

This is a bit different though dealing with a big multi million company and not just some other dude like me or you.

I agree about the Customer Service tho and people saying its cool to be rude and we were better off when it was ok will never have any success in business IMO.

At the end of the day its 40 quid no biggie just thought it could have been handled better and a bit of leeway given for an honest mistake by a loyal and long term losing punter.

[eagle eye]

If this happened on Betfair in a live market you could lay off the bet immediately for a very minor loss unless the price changed drastically before you realised it.

Basically if you make a mistake on Betfair in a live market you can rectify it if nothing changes.

[Ryanzo]

FYP CHD

[Mellor]

If this happened on Betfair in a live market you could lay off the bet immediately for a very minor loss unless the price changed drastically before you realised it.

Basically if you make a mistake on Betfair in a live market you can rectify it if nothing changes.

No you can't rectify it.
The lay price will be less, you you are guaranteed a loss.

I'd rather let it run on Tiger at 4s for value.

[Deep Throat]

The way you describe this I presume you were having a few beers at the time in front of the telly with the PC in the corner?

Drink + Misclick + Polite Chat with Customer Service = I'll have the roll at 1.01 that these 3 actually happened