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Old 09-10-17, 14:40   #1
aidankk
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"he called me with King High" :-0

This wont make it into my stupid plays log as its not a stupid play but id be interested to see if anyone else thinks this kind of thing is fairly normal, and what they think of the call.

blinds 2k4k 300 ante. late day 1 warmup

villain cutoff about 70k raises to 11k (raising to much for my liking)

me BB called the 11k with j8os and about 70k

flop qq4.

me check him 14-16k , me all in .

He though for a few seconds and called with k7 os.

I know he was right but i haven't played with him that much and it seems either super advanced play or madness and im not sure which.

From my point of view seems a very easy steal for me when he is raising too much and on that board is very unlikely to have anything.

He gave me a fair berating telling me i dint know what i was doing etc (obv after the 8 hits the river). I view my steal as normal enough once or twice a tournament when needs must.

Its just the looks of other around in shock wonder how the feck all that is in the middle with no pairs no draw..
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Old 09-10-17, 14:47   #2
Dice75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidankk View Post
This wont make it into my stupid plays log as its not a stupid play but id be interested to see if anyone else thinks this kind of thing is fairly normal, and what they think of the call.

blinds 2k4k 300 ante. late day 1 warmup

villain cutoff about 70k raises to 11k (raising to much for my liking)

me BB called the 11k with j8os and about 70k

flop qq4.

me check him 14-16k , me all in .

He though for a few seconds and called with k7 os.

I know he was right but i haven't played with him that much and it seems either super advanced play or madness and im not sure which.

From my point of view seems a very easy steal for me when he is raising too much and on that board is very unlikely to have anything.

He gave me a fair berating telling me i dint know what i was doing etc (obv after the 8 hits the river). I view my steal as normal enough once or twice a tournament when needs must.

Its just the looks of other around in shock wonder how the feck all that is in the middle with no pairs no draw..
What did you think he had and what are you trying to rep with the check-jam?

You are automatically ruling out any pair from his range as well as any Queen?
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Old 09-10-17, 15:00   #3
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You hit the 8, it was the correct play obv.
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Old 09-10-17, 15:01   #4
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All I can confirm is I would almost certainly have been one of those "wtf just happened" heads at the table, I think my next thought would have been collusion
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Old 09-10-17, 15:29   #5
aidankk
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What did you think he had and what are you trying to rep with the check-jam?

You are automatically ruling out any pair from his range as well as any Queen?
His range is fairly big and on a qq4 board i suppose i think this will get though a huge percentage of the time. Pairs are part of his range but i thought his range was very big ( as it turned out with k7)

Also ill go for it at times on not so much a tell but feeling that he is continue betting regardless and my feeling is he has f all.

Im pretty much always going to let a frequent raiser make his continuation bet on that flop before applying the pressure. I view it as free money enough of the time to make sense. In fairness to him it wasn't free money and he made a call not many will make. Hope i remember his face in case i try the same thing again
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Old 09-10-17, 15:34   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidankk View Post
His range is fairly big and on a qq4 board i suppose i think this will get though a huge percentage of the time. Pairs are part of his range but i thought his range was very big ( as it turned out with k7)

Also ill go for it at times on not so much a tell but feeling that he is continue betting regardless and my feeling is he has f all.

Im pretty much always going to let a frequent raiser make his continuation bet on that flop before applying the pressure. I view it as free money enough of the time to make sense. In fairness to him it wasn't free money and he made a call not many will make. Hope i remember his face in case i try the same thing again
Why will it get through a huge percentage of the time?
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Old 09-10-17, 15:34   #7
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I had to check the date the thread was created, I was expecting it to be sometime in 2008.
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Old 09-10-17, 15:35   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice75 View Post
What did you think he had and what are you trying to rep with the check-jam?

You are automatically ruling out any pair from his range as well as any Queen?
Any time i've seen this play, it's either air or a scared 4x

You might fold out 22-33 and some 89o type hands, but villain might feel like he has 2 overcards or even be ahead and make a call. Can't imagine you ever shove a Qx so villain shouldn't fold any pair. I hate the call preflop btw.You have 17bb and calling almost 3bb with J8o. I know people defend a lot shallower from the blinds these days, but that's usually to a min raise with a hand more connected than J8o.
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Old 09-10-17, 16:03   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimmeabreak View Post
I had to check the date the thread was created, I was expecting it to be sometime in 2008.
I'm in this camp 😂😂😂 will comment better later when I've had some time to
Think about it and few beers in me
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Old 09-10-17, 17:02   #10
DeadParrot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
Any time i've seen this play, it's either air or a scared 4x

You might fold out 22-33 and some 89o type hands, but villain might feel like he has 2 overcards or even be ahead and make a call. Can't imagine you ever shove a Qx so villain shouldn't fold any pair. I hate the call preflop btw.You have 17bb and calling almost 3bb with J8o. I know people defend a lot shallower from the blinds these days, but that's usually to a min raise with a hand more connected than J8o.

J8o is the new Q10s

I agree pretty much with all you say btw.
Apart from the shoving range.
His hand looks like a small mid pair so I don't hate the shove. No Q 100% but a scared 4x up to 10s I think plays this the same way. (People still call small pairs in the blinds right?)
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Old 09-10-17, 17:11   #11
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Horrific and Horrific
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Old 09-10-17, 17:42   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadParrot View Post
up to 10s I think plays this the same way. (People still call small pairs in the blinds right?)
With 17bb in the bb facing a guy opening from LP that is (raising to much for my liking), we should be shoving a lot of our range, including all of the pairs you mention so can't see how they are in the hero's range.
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Old 09-10-17, 19:07   #13
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never comment on these threads as I'm still waiting on the game to catch up on me.

However Preflop i'd prefer to jam preflop . After that the impending car crash is full of drivers with their lights switched out
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Old 09-10-17, 21:05   #14
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Pre is terribad. Truly awful.

Flop is ok, at least you put some thought behind it. Was a good call by him.
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Old 09-10-17, 21:17   #15
aidankk
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[QUOTE=Mike Bullocks;1044917]never comment on these threads as I'm still waiting on the game to catch up on me.

However Preflop i'd prefer to jam preflop . After that the impending car crash is full of drivers with their lights switched out[/QUOTE]

looks like on the face of it you accurately describing my game in general
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Old 09-10-17, 22:30   #16
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Originally Posted by AndyFatBastard View Post
Pre is terribad. Truly awful.

Flop is ok, at least you put some thought behind it. Was a good call by him.
Preflop is a a standard call. Calling 7k to win about 27k. You need around 25% equity.

On this flop, his range dominates yours so check shoving doesn't really make sense. (Both of you miss most of the time but your range is capped) Its not how you would play a queen either so your play is really unbalanced. A good strategy might be to call all two pair plus, and mix in some floats with hands that have the best equity, so backdoor draws.
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Old 09-10-17, 22:38   #17
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From villan's point of view you never have a strong ace here, and never have a queen, so the call becomes somewhat reasonable, in line with Flushdraw's post.

Since the raise pf was chunky - approx. 2.75 BB, off sub 20 BB stacks, there's approx. 11-12 BB in the middle when you check raise, so his pot odds are very good.
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Old 10-10-17, 08:36   #18
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Preflop is a a standard call. Calling 7k to win about 27k. You need around 25% equity.
No. You're calling 7k to see a flop in a 27k pot, out of position, with ~60k behind. There is an ocean of difference.
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Old 10-10-17, 09:59   #19
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Hand played itself.

Don't think either of you can get away from this flop.
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Old 10-10-17, 10:47   #20
aidankk
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Lots of decent replies.

A lot of the time ill just ship pre flop but that can get called more often and easier than the post flop ship, depending on flop i suppose.

I thought he was raising too much in the short time i was there and in truth sometimes i like to shove back (regardless) . I would probably have foolishly showed the j8 if the shove got through.

I probably need to get rid of these from my game a bit in these tournaments,, but i looked over at him and said f* it he has nothing. ( in fairness he outplayed me and i wouldn't be at all surprised if he has seen me do that before and was going to call anyway as he called straight away)
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Last edited by aidankk; 10-10-17 at 10:52.
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