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Old 11-05-11, 10:39   #1
Laois Hammer
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Omaha H/L FT Hand

Its an mtt but it might aswel be a mtt sng as it probably gets apx. the same amount of people every mornin, 54 runners 6 getting paid.

6th: $148.50 | 5th: $202.50 | 4th: $270 | 3rd: $405 | 2nd: $675 | 1st: $999

Would this be a fold taking into account stack sizes and the fact i have no hope of the Lo?
Also its a hyper turbo.

PokerStars Game #61950829284: Tournament #393336169, $50+$1 USD Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit - Level XI (2000/4000) - 2011/05/11 10:36:21 WET [2011/05/11 5:36:21 ET]
Table '393336169 2' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Laois Hammer (21812 in chips)
Seat 2: unkypunky (23045 in chips)
Seat 3: DAMIROK (12885 in chips)
Seat 4: willrobrobu (45463 in chips)
Seat 5: HuubG (19385 in chips)
Seat 6: Djóni (26143 in chips)
Seat 7: mikal12345 (10010 in chips)
Seat 9: Straaty (3257 in chips)
Laois Hammer: posts the ante 800
unkypunky: posts the ante 800
DAMIROK: posts the ante 800
willrobrobu: posts the ante 800
HuubG: posts the ante 800
Djóni: posts the ante 800
mikal12345: posts the ante 800
Straaty: posts the ante 800
Laois Hammer: posts small blind 2000
unkypunky: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Laois Hammer [Ah 6c Kc As]
DAMIROK: folds
willrobrobu: raises 40663 to 44663 and is all-in
HuubG: folds
Djóni: folds
mikal12345: calls 9210 and is all-in
Straaty: folds
Laois Hammer:..............
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Old 11-05-11, 11:17   #2
premierstone
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No way am I folding this, the guy with the bigstacks range is very wide here as he knows most will be trying to hang on for 6th and we have the small stack covered and hes range with 2bbs is quite wide aswell.

You have AA and a suited K, you say you have no chance of winning the lo, well 30% of the time there is no lo and A6 can win aswell so you have enough equity to make this a call IMO.
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Old 11-05-11, 11:43   #3
Flushdraw
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I reckon it's a fold. NL plays different to PL and generally an EP shove by the big stack will be an A235 or A246 type hand. It's almost always A2 with some counterfeit. I'm assuming he's not a donkey seeing as most Omaha hi/lo donks stick to the $4, $11 and $22 games and don't tend to venture into the $50 games

If we're up against an A235 hand, we're less than 70% to win the high and about 2% to win the low

I don't mind getting my chips in with this hand if we're first into the pot, but i'm not a fan of calling it off. We are about 40% to scoop but don't think we're getting offered the price overall. If you think his range is wider than what i put him on, then it could be a call but i reckon i fold in the heat of the moment
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Old 11-05-11, 12:27   #4
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you'll scoop nearly half the time and getting a very good price
since it's a hyper you probably only have a round of the table left, you could fold to 4th or 5th. info about the big stack would help, i guess his range is wide and only playing the bubble

I'd call, scooping this one would give you a great shot at 1st, even chopping it adds a fair bit to you stack
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Old 11-05-11, 12:41   #5
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I'm never folding this. Obv there'll be a lot to dodge but if you're playing FTW you have to take chances like this one. Don't know the % of AAKx hands vs A234 hands but I def wouldn't be folding aces with <5BB, regardless of how close it is with other stacks.
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Old 11-05-11, 12:48   #6
premierstone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
I reckon it's a fold. NL plays different to PL and generally an EP shove by the big stack will be an A235 or A246 type hand. It's almost always A2 with some counterfeit. I'm assuming he's not a donkey seeing as most Omaha hi/lo donks stick to the $4, $11 and $22 games and don't tend to venture into the $50 games

If we're up against an A235 hand, we're less than 70% to win the high and about 2% to win the low

I don't mind getting my chips in with this hand if we're first into the pot, but i'm not a fan of calling it off. We are about 40% to scoop but don't think we're getting offered the price overall. If you think his range is wider than what i put him on, then it could be a call but i reckon i fold in the heat of the moment
Yeah I agree Tony with the fact that NL and PL are two very different dynamics and I mainly play PL myself, but we have less than 5BB and its a hyper turbo like what type of hand are we waiting for here?

As you say the guy shoving is most likely competent but this to me is even more reason to call as he knows he can get away with shoving light here so close to the money with a couple of real shorties on the table.
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Old 11-05-11, 12:59   #7
Flushdraw
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Originally Posted by premierstone View Post
Yeah I agree Tony with the fact that NL and PL are two very different dynamics and I mainly play PL myself, but we have less than 5BB and its a hyper turbo like what type of hand are we waiting for here?

As you say the guy shoving is most likely competent but this to me is even more reason to call as he knows he can get away with shoving light here so close to the money with a couple of real shorties on the table.
Didn't notice it was a hyper turbo tbh

We do have 5 bbs, but we're on the bubble and there's a 2bb stack all in, there's a 1bb and a 3bb stack, and then the other 2 have 5-6 bb stacks. I'm not sure if ICM says it's a call but it's close
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Old 11-05-11, 13:11   #8
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if you fold this hand your playing the wrong game and id love you at my table.

the main reason i make a lot of money in hilo is that people make bad bad folds when they cant do anything else but call, or they make horrible plays when very very deep

if its the bubble the big stack could and pretty much should be shoving any 4 cards if people are letting him.
even if he gets called the majority of the time its 60/40 at worst. people shove a hell of a lot of crap in this game too a589 etc so no gurantee you wont get the low, what is a gurantee though is that you wont see a better starting hand with that few bbs

get it in and give yourself a chance of 1st rather than limping up the ladder
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Old 11-05-11, 15:24   #9
NuckChorris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
We do have 5 bbs, but we're on the bubble and there's a 2bb stack all in, there's a 1bb and a 3bb stack, and then the other 2 have 5-6 bb stacks. I'm not sure if ICM says it's a call but it's close
We're on bubble +1, but one player left has <1BB. Doesn't make it effectively the bubble, but def has a bearing on it.
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Old 12-05-11, 07:30   #10
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This is alot tougher than I thought at first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
We are about 40% to scoop but don't think we're getting offered the price overall. If you think his range is wider than what i put him on, then it could be a call but i reckon i fold in the heat of the moment
The pot is over 40k, it's 19k to call.
From a purely cEV point of view, its an easy call even with the lack of a decent low draw.

But from a $EV pov, I think i fold (although I may not give it this much thought at the table).

We've just paid the blinds so are in the best spot at the table, all of the others have to take a blind hit. Even the ante is huge now making up 5% or more of a lot of stacks;

Seat 2: unkypunky (23045 in chips) ..still to act in this hand
Seat 3: DAMIROK (12885 in chips) ...BB next hand, with only 5285 behind, if he doesn't move he is SB with 2485 behind - anted out by HJ
Seat 4: willrobrobu (45463 in chips) ..all-in now
Seat 5: HuubG (19385 in chips) ...blinds before us
Seat 6: Djóni (26143 in chips) ...blinds before us
Seat 7: mikal12345 (10010 in chips) all-in here
Seat 9: Straaty (3257 in chips) ...this guy has 3 hands left before he'll be anted out, even then he has to get through the blinds


As its hyper turbo, the blinds could increase soon thus making it even worse for shorties. With so many people in bad spots i think i fold.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NuckChorris View Post
We're on bubble +1, but one player left has <1BB. Doesn't make it effectively the bubble, but def has a bearing on it.
It will be the bubble if we call.
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Old 13-05-11, 10:16   #11
Laois Hammer
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Cheers for all replys, fwiw i folded.
Still unclear if theres 100% right thing to do
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Old 13-05-11, 10:22   #12
Flushdraw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laois Hammer View Post
Cheers for all replys, fwiw i folded.
Still unclear if theres 100% right thing to do
As a matter of interest, what hand did willrobrobu have? Just wondering how wide his shoving range was.

FWIW, i think willrobrobu took down one of the SCOOPs during the week. I remember his name from watching one of the replays the other night
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Old 13-05-11, 10:57   #13
Laois Hammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
As a matter of interest, what hand did willrobrobu have? Just wondering how wide his shoving range was.

FWIW, i think willrobrobu took down one of the SCOOPs during the week. I remember his name from watching one of the replays the other night
willrobrobu: shows [Qs Ts Qh 9h] (HI: a pair of Queens)
mikal12345: shows [Jc 2h 3c Ac] (HI: two pair, Jacks and Threes; LO: 7,4,3,2,A)

Yeh i just checked he won the 1st Event - Low, 2nd place got more $$s but he gets his name in lights.
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