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    Omaha learner

    Well, I'm just messing around with some medium omaha online cash games, maybe learning the hard way!!!

    Played pot here this evening against a reg, (well he's playing 6 tables .25/50.)
    he's v. aggressive in position pf. and likes c/betting a lot, and I've seen him 3 barrelling with air.

    Anyway, I have Ad AC 10d 5s and pot it (1.75). 1 caller, he repots it for 7.50, I repot it again, just villian calls. Half stacks are in now. (both of us have a ful buy-in when pot starts)

    Flop is 8c-6h-2s. He ships for whats left of his stack. I call. he has 2 pair, holding 4-5-6-8.

    How bad is this call by me?
    How often am i supposed to fold here in omaha.
    How much of my stack should I be prepared to get in pf with AA, or should it always be AAds. (or AA-KK or what??

    It led to a conversation with my son on what hands you should be prepared to get it in with pf in omaha. We argued on this, but as we are neither omaha players, we dont know whos winning the arguement!!

    So in a nutshell lads, can some one address the above, and a basic guide to starting hands and raising hands would be appreciated. Ive made a decision to take on this omaha game, so all help will be appreciated.

    Connie

    #2


    my first ever omaha hand 3 days ago!
    served me well aha

    i too would like to know some of the decent starting hands, and in comparison to NL/HOLDEM how often do you run into trips/str8s/2 pair
    seems whatever i think is good...is never good enough..like if im holding 2 pair..i seem to run into trips..holding trips there is a str8..is this bad luck? or are the variance swings huge?
    Last edited by BrianByrne; 09-02-10, 01:14.
    Disaster - Dreamcrusher

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      #3
      Hi Connie i play omaha only, at a lower level than you 10/20c so i dont know what my opinion is worth in this instance.

      If i get AAsuited up i will reraise if i have the postion to do so if i get AA naked i will raise and only call a reraise.
      (thats my logic it may warrent so more thinking on my behalf but thats what i do)
      if flop comes with out an A im betting lightly im not thinking this holdem which i think a lot people who come from holdem when the see AA in an omaha hand i know iv been there.

      on the issue of starting hands 10JKQ or the like, 4567 is nice too not gone A234 to be honest its the lower end of the straight so very easly beat.

      Asuited with say K10 is ok u can draw to flush with A suited or you mite hit a top staight draw. But i usually see a cheap flop with any suited A.

      id be very mindful of any hand you have if the board pairs. its so easy flop 2 pair so be careful of that 1. i find omaha a very enjoyable game that needs a lot thinking and u may need to bluff a lot too especially if ur firing bullets on draw that u havent made yet.

      see thats the beauty of omaha you get twice as many cards as holdem so its twice the joy and the heart ache that it brings too.

      But Connie hope this helps as i say im playing a limit below yours so not to sure.
      http://www.sitnpoker.com/?amigosid=18

      Comment


        #4
        Id snap call that hand there connie

        Normally its said if you cant get 1/3 of your stack in pre, then you shouldnt make the last bet - which normally defines that you actually have the AA's.

        By default id it in HU on 80%+ of flops if ive achieved this.

        Most people who flop 1p hands with guttys or draws will jam into you if oop - to try and bring some FE to their hand. Its when they check that your often in trouble, but player dependant.

        Also if you are multi way with AAxx id be happier to let it go to action if you have ugly flop.

        Getting it in with rundowns is never too bad, esp if double suited. If you're playing against 2 rocks who are going crazy potting it, and both may have AAxx, then your actually favourite against them most of the time.

        I think Dom posted an interesting PLO guide in the other place, that if he copies and pastes may be very helpful. Apart from that, just try posting hands, its the best way to learn i think. And until your happy enough with your understanding of the game, just try and play a tight/lowball style of game.
        GAA News Website

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          #5
          Originally posted by BrianByrne View Post


          my first ever omaha hand 3 days ago!
          served me well aha

          i too would like to know some of the decent starting hands, and in comparison to NL/HOLDEM how often do you run into trips/str8s/2 pair
          seems whatever i think is good...is never good enough..like if im holding 2 pair..i seem to run into trips..holding trips there is a str8..is this bad luck? or are the variance swings huge?
          Brian if i may, just from reading your post i think and i may be wrong but i think your playing way to many hands (and i can see why, twice as many cards twice as many possibilties and if ur new to omaha this plays a major part in your game i was there too once)
          U need to be very selective in ur starting hands if ur starting out playing omaha. im only playing small stakes but im very selective. tighten up ur starting range first off then remember that most omaha players are gamblers a lot more so than in holdem so there starting range can be very wide. if u tighten up some what and let them gamble against you when u have the nuts then ull be winning and be beers all round on you.

          an example of a hand today Q10 A4suited he raises i call flop comes Q103 he bets pot i put him on aces r kings or the like i reraise he pumps it in i call he has QQ he miles ahead i river him for a flush with runner runner so its a very tricky game.

          aplogisees if i come across all wrong.
          http://www.sitnpoker.com/?amigosid=18

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Semibluff View Post
            Id snap call that hand there connie

            Normally its said if you cant get 1/3 of your stack in pre, then you shouldnt make the last bet - which normally defines that you actually have the AA's.

            By default id it in HU on 80%+ of flops if ive achieved this.

            Most people who flop 1p hands with guttys or draws will jam into you if oop - to try and bring some FE to their hand. Its when they check that your often in trouble, but player dependant.

            Also if you are multi way with AAxx id be happier to let it go to action if you have ugly flop.

            Getting it in with rundowns is never too bad, esp if double suited. If you're playing against 2 rocks who are going crazy potting it, and both may have AAxx, then your actually favourite against them most of the time.

            I think Dom posted an interesting PLO guide in the other place, that if he copies and pastes may be very helpful. Apart from that, just try posting hands, its the best way to learn i think. And until your happy enough with your understanding of the game, just try and play a tight/lowball style of game.
            Thanks for that.
            I'm pretty sure that with a bit of work, I'll get the hang of this game. I played a few hours of cash tonight, not much really i know. maybe 3 hours 2 tabling .25-50. had to reload on 1 table when i lost the hand posted in the op, but finished up 2 buy-ins, so thats not too bad i guess. beginners luck probably.

            What i'd like to avoid is making the stupid mistakes most beginners make, so thats why I;m hoping my fellow boardies can help and I can avoid easy errors. Simple things like what type of hand is good to flat raises with in position, what kinda hands are bad to call raises with, what kinda hand is a definate reraising hand, etc etc (all pf scenarios )

            then of course, post flop, you flop the nut flush draw. How happy are ye with getting the stacks in here, is it still villian dependant, or do we need the back up of a straight draw as well?

            Sorry if the questions sound naive, but as I havent done any reading up on omaha yet, I'm obviously raw. I intend playing for a month or so to get a feel for it, and then pick up a book on it and see how it relates to what im doing. Obviously, with the talent that lurks around this forum, I'm more than willing to take all the advice on board that ye're willing to divulge.

            Connie

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by connie147 View Post
              Thanks for that.
              I'm pretty sure that with a bit of work, I'll get the hang of this game. I played a few hours of cash tonight, not much really i know. maybe 3 hours 2 tabling .25-50. had to reload on 1 table when i lost the hand posted in the op, but finished up 2 buy-ins, so thats not too bad i guess. beginners luck probably.

              What i'd like to avoid is making the stupid mistakes most beginners make, so thats why I;m hoping my fellow boardies can help and I can avoid easy errors. Simple things like what type of hand is good to flat raises with in position, what kinda hands are bad to call raises with, what kinda hand is a definate reraising hand, etc etc (all pf scenarios )Plo is a game were position is a massive part of the game. This is because as you understanding of the game and hand reading abilities increase, you can use position to win pots that you would have lost had you been first to act. For this reason, the hands i call with in position are alot weaker than those i call with out of position
              If a very tight player 3bets you OOP, then calling his raise with an A in your hand would be simular to only calling him with 3 cards
              also hands like 88JT arent the best to call with to a 3bet. It limits your straight potential to only 3 cards, and until youve a better grasp of the game, very tite pre flop selection is probably best.

              As for re-raising hands, alot of people re-raise in position with a variation of hands. It mixes your game up and depending on how active you hav been, may give you chances to win the pot even when you've completely missed, or to scoop with a totally un-repped hand. Id very rarely 3bet oop unless you know you can get some dead money to fold and/or get HU versus a passive player. Player notes on holdings people re-raise with depending on position aswell as their willingness/or unwillingness to let go of these hands, can become very profitable. Especially if they aren't mixing up their range significantly


              then of course, post flop, you flop the nut flush draw. How happy are ye with getting the stacks in here, is it still villian dependant, or do we need the back up of a straight draw as well?
              s regards the nuts flush draws etc, its down to maths really, and can be alot simular to situations in nl. If your last to act with 2/3 players then semibluffing with the nfd would be most default positions. If there are two all ins before you, then stacking off with the nfd is also normal as your 2/1 to hit. Heads up oop you'd only really check raise bar nfd if you thought you had enough FE, player dependant. Otherwise peeling and folding/repping scare turns, is the other option. You should go to cardplayer.com and use the omaha hand odds calculator. run hands with bare nfd/guttys/2pairs/oesd's and see what price you would need to be getting against your opponent and they're expected hands to learn your odds for each decision. Also running hands, all in pre's or on flops through the same calculator will also show you how far ahead (or ore than likely how close) a situation actually was
              Sorry if the questions sound naive, but as I havent done any reading up on omaha yet, I'm obviously raw. I intend playing for a month or so to get a feel for it, and then pick up a book on it and see how it relates to what im doing. Obviously, with the talent that lurks around this forum, I'm more than willing to take all the advice on board that ye're willing to divulge.

              Connie
              Theres certainly others here who would be in a better position to give more definite answers than myself, but ill try and answer what i can.

              keep posting hands and asking Questions, best way to learn. Also a small guide on premium starting hands should mean that you will atleast break even on the lower stakes whilst learning
              GAA News Website

              Comment


                #8
                There are, I suppose, certain rules you should abide by early on in your Omaha game, which will allow you to settle...

                Pretty hands: A 4 card rundown is always nice, and more experienced player/utter degens will often prefer such a hand to AAxx/AKKx etc. However, the later in position you are, the more valuable such hands are, since it limits the action which can occur after you. All too often you can call a bet with 8910J, only to face a re-pot after you, putting a decision for all your money back on you.

                How aggro is the table?: This links to the previous point, that the more aggressive the table, the more selective you need to be - you'll bleed chips at a massive rate otherwise. On these tables I've been known to limp UTG with AAKK, AAQ10, knowing that there'll be a raise after me, allowing me to re-pot. In fact I once completed from the small blind in the Fitz with such a hand, knowing the Big Blind would make it ten, and the 3-4 calling stations would allow me to get it all in pre...

                Best starting hand: People will say AAKK double suited, but others, including myself say AAJ10 double suited. You know yourself that a run with J10 in it is the nut run, but apart from that I am always wary of two pair hands, even if they're Aces and Kings. Aces are fine preflop, not always so good post.

                Marty Smyth has some nice videos on Poker Swat if you wanna check em out?
                Hey buddy, did ya get that thing I sent ya?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hi Connie congrats on another good wk end for you in Killarney , your like a machine atm.
                  Anyway back to your dispute with Derry , Having played with him for the best part of saturday night i can assure you that he is no expert in the omaha dept.( or me either) and therfore anything he say's should be taken lightly . I think Semibluff and Lee has given you very good advice here and the rest will come with time and patience which you are full of anyway.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think your call isn't good. you either be only slightily ahead, behind, or even way behind. Your are virtually never a big favirote here. Just wait for better spots in my opinion. In Pot Limit Omaha one pair is almost never a good enough hand to commit you to the pot!
                    Last edited by Flushdraw; 24-01-11, 11:54. Reason: No need to resurrect 1 year old threads with added links..

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by tina View Post
                      I think your call isn't good. you either be only slightily ahead, behind, or even way behind. Your are virtually never a big favirote here. Just wait for better spots in my opinion. In Pot Limit Omaha one pair is almost never a good enough hand to commit you to the pot!
                      Half his stack is in pre, he's heads up getting 3/1 it's a no brainer call.If your levelling fair dues you've got a bite if not read Semibluff's answers above

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