Bad beat/Moaning/Venting thread - Mammy told me not to come.

[Raoul Duke III]

[Opr]

Graph

I thought most reasonable people could see how this metric is completely useless and merely used as a headline grabber.

I think this Guardian article does a good job as debunking the whole idea that it has declined in real terms.

Just to state as well.

The number of people living under $7.40/day has grown from 3.78 billion in 1990 to 4.16 billion in 2013. With numbers like that on the table, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that there’s something wrong with the progress narrative.

Opr

[Guest]

I don't think you guys are actually reading what he is writing.

"We're currently in a situation where almost no-one in the world is hungry, for the first time in history."

Is simply not true. And the fact that LESS people are now hungry does not mean that NO people are hungry. And the amount of hungry people is not insignificant. Its not a tiny number. According to the statistics provided by PSV is nearly a billion people, or 1/9 of the worlds population.

Also, there is something deeply unsettling about people borne into enormous relative wealth writing off the problems of world so flippantly.

Nobody here is claiming that though. We're simply saying that by an abundance of objective measures, human well-being has improved drastically over time, a wide range of time frames in fact.
One of those measures being relative global poverty, the absolute number of people in poverty may have actually increased and 800m people is too much but it's still relatively far less as RD3 has shown in that visual.

Nobody here is being flippant, evidently we're all interested out of concern. I know I try to play my part but I could definitely do far more.
I think it's somewhat unfair on your part to claim that by being objective we're in turn being flippant about the suffering that persists around the world.

I thought most reasonable people could see how this metric is completely useless and merely used as a headline grabber.

I think this Guardian article does a good job as debunking the whole idea that it has declined in real terms.

Just to state as well.


Opr

I think that's an interesting article but I think it does little to debunk the points made here.

Nobody here claimed the poverty line is perfectly fine, adjusting the poverty line would likely lead to substantially more people being in poverty.

However, that probably wouldn't change that relative poverty has decreased which was largely the point.
Perhaps it may shown that above the $10 or $15 line a higher proportion of the people in the world has entered that region leading to a larger proportion of people escaping poverty while the absolute amount has increased?

I tend to agree that the graphs rolled out at Davos produce a very salient image of a rosy state of the world that largely doesn't exist but it still offers an insight into what progress has occurred.

Furthermore, the author focuses substantially on the use of the proletariat and wealth inequality.
Nobody here denied that wealth inequality is vast but as one the most egalitarian philosophers in Singer notes a capitalist system offers the greatest opportunity for a tide that lifts all boats so let's not jump on the Marxist train just yet.

The author also notes "the number of people in poverty gone up", yes as the population has increased this is true but we know that's arguably the most misleading statistic of all.

Finally he notes the concentration of improvement occurring in China, again I think this offers little as a rebuttal to any claims made here. Vast improvement still needs to occur irrespective of the location but it still doesn't change the fact that a lower proportion of people persist in poverty than any time in history.

[ionapaul]

Fun argument but I doubt either side is going to convince the other Reads more like a clash of mindsets than anything that either side can 'win' by way of providing facts or figures.

[Denny Crane]

Moreover, the few gains that have been made have virtually all happened in one place: China. It is disingenuous, then, for the likes of Gates and Pinker to claim these gains as victories for Washington-consensus neoliberalism. Take China out of the equation

Woulda counted that as a victory for capitalism myself

Roser’s graph illustrates a story of coerced proletarianisation.

Hmmm

saying we shouldn’t complain about rising inequality when the very forces that deliver such immense wealth to the richest are also eradicating poverty before our very eyes.

It’s a powerful narrative. And it’s completely wrong.

The most important metric around this is always going to be absolute poverty, where people are in low income counties are today vs where they were last year is far more important than how they compare to Bill Gates, or middle class people in high income countries.

[dobby]

Guy in work had that exact bet too.

I know 4 lads who had that bet on too. They must have got a hot tip. Fair play to them

[Opr]

The most important metric around this is always going to be absolute poverty, where people are in low income counties are today vs where they were last year is far more important than how they compare to Bill Gates, or middle class people in high income countries.

My original point wasn't to argue with many of the reasonable things Murdrum has stated. It was merely that the graph of the $2 a day is completely disingenuous given the complex nature of the problem of which I thought that article expanded on well.

I don't really understand why you have picked this one part from the whole article. He expands in more detail in this article why this should be seen as a problem. Now before the knives come out, I do think as ioupaul points out that this is taking statistics and making them fit an argument to a certain degree but I do agree that if in fact, we have increased our ability to do more yet are doing less then I wouldn't consider it progress.

Opr

[Hectorjelly]

Nobody here is claiming that though.

Hitch did repeatedly. I don't know why you insist on ignoring the actual words I'm using and having your own argument on another point, I mean I don't even read past the first paragraph since that shows you have ignored what I've said.

[Hectorjelly]

The world has problems. The world, on balance, is a better place to live than in the past.

The two things are not exclusive.

Which is what I've said in every post I've made. Thanks for agreeing with me.

Also, I resisted the temptation to use the phrase...ivory tower.

[Guest]

Hitch did repeatedly. I don't know why you insist on ignoring the actual words I'm using and having your own argument on another point, I mean I don't even read past the first paragraph since that shows you have ignored what I've said.

We've been over this, it was clear to literally everyone who replied that Hitch was referring to relatively less atrocities, no one is hungry relative to previous periods in history.

You know this but are refusing to acknowledge it.

If I was to continue to take you on your first response I'd have to keep asking if your responses are a joke?

Although I find your responses to me to be repeatedly childish, please highlight where I have not responded to what you said?
I believe I have responded to exactly what you have said.

[Hectorjelly]

I took what Hitch has said at face value. You seem to be ignoring the actual words he uses and then having a different argument that fits what you imagine the discussion we are having is, despite me not ever engaging with it and repeatedly explaining to you where you are going wrong. Maybe it was clear to you what Hitch meant, but that's not the meaning of the words that he used.

I've said several times now I don't disagree the world is a better place than it was, but yet you persist. An uncharitable explanation would be that you are excited to regurgitate the contents of a book you have recently read. In any case its just a waste of both of our times.

[ArmaniJeans]

Fun argument but I doubt either side is going to convince the other Reads more like a clash of mindsets than anything that either side can 'win' by way of providing facts or figures.

Definitely shouldn't have been a penalty.

[Guest]

I took what Hitch has said at face value. You seem to be ignoring the actual words he uses and then having a different argument that fits what you imagine the discussion we are having is, despite me not ever engaging with it and repeatedly explaining to you where you are going wrong. Maybe it was clear to you what Hitch meant, but that's not the meaning of the words that he used.

I've said several times now I don't disagree the world is a better place than it was, but yet you persist. An uncharitable explanation would be that you are excited to regurgitate the contents of a book you have recently read. In any case its just a waste of both of our times.

I don't think you guys are actually reading what he is writing.

"We're currently in a situation where almost no-one in the world is hungry, for the first time in history."

Is simply not true. And the fact that LESS people are now hungry does not mean that NO people are hungry. And the amount of hungry people is not insignificant. Its not a tiny number. According to the statistics provided by PSV is nearly a billion people, or 1/9 of the worlds population.

Also, there is something deeply unsettling about people borne into enormous relative wealth writing off the problems of world so flippantly.

Hitch said almost no one as you can see, he knows poverty is somewhere around (<10%).
You inferred that to mean he explicitly said no one is hungry so when I said nobody claimed that I was in fact correct. You decided to fit his point to your narrative.

I felt he was echoing a similar sentiment earlier about relative change so I responded to that. You originally responded to his previous point and everyone else inferred it's point correctly so I was happy to infer the same once again.

Either way whether you take what he literally said or what I subsequently inferred you are the one that is responding incorrectly.

As I said your responses are repeatedly infantile towards me, you mentioned the regurgitation of the contents of a book already, it was childish the first time so there's probably no need to repeat it. You're probably right no point continuing this.

[Raoul Duke III]

I know 4 lads who had that bet on too. They must have got a hot tip. Fair play to them

Betting with bookies is for chumps.

Competitions between like-minded individuals are much more deeply satisfying. Imagine an evening in an upmarket strip club casually throwing around fifties that originally belonged to IPBers.

Priceless.

[Dice75]

I love when HJ goes off on one

[Raoul Duke III]

Am I hallucinating or is it possible to buy a special board for resting cooked steaks on?

i.e. to let the blood drain

(Sorry, Tar)

[newbie2]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/carving-reversible-chopping-Bamboo-reservoir/dp/B00AD0W78A

[Tar.Aldarion]

Yeah we used to have one for the myoglobin when I was a youngin' and that was long time ago. Speaking of steak, just saw that Darwin's have a vegan "steak" for €22, must try lol.

[The Situation]

That does not look appetizing

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Solksjaer!]

I'm hungry

[Solksjaer!]

Feck you Parrot . You had one job.

[Denny Crane]

Nope. Looks more dead animal than an actual dead animal. Vegans are clearly goth freaks.

They were very obsessed about the "juice" in those vegan burgers alright

[Raoul Duke III]

A mere 2 business days remaining before everyone's favourite competition of the year.

Yes, you are cutting it fine to enter but if you get on the job tomorrow, you should make it by a whisker.

Think of the glory

[Strewelpeter]

There is a more interesting discussion than this to be had about the significance of relative poverty in the modern world especially because the measures of absolute poverty from the past are much less significant now than access to education and technology and the opportunities they hold.

Income inequality and wealth distribution are far more urgent problems than climate change and whatever progress we are making needs to be accelerated. That the obvious and easiest ways to raise incomes in the poorest parts of the world feed directly towards worsening the environmental challenge is a huge problem.
All we need the physicists to hurry up deliver on cheap and abundant energy!

[Strewelpeter]

Yeah we used to have one for the myoglobin when I was a youngin' and that was long time ago. Speaking of steak, just saw that Darwin's have a vegan "steak" for €22, must try lol.

Is that the Ethiopian or the fake steak?

[Guest]

.
All we need the physicists to hurry up deliver on cheap and abundant energy!

Definetly. We need to take Zurophs plane of him so he can fully focus his attention on what matters

[Tar.Aldarion]

The fake steak thing, looks like a pile of Ketchup. The Ethiopian is injera, curry and all that.

The problem, as you allude to, with climate combat measures is that we have to allow poor countries the same dirty advances that we had, to bring them up to par. That means we have to reduce even more. Not using straws doesn't cut it.

[Guest]

The fake steak thing, looks like a pile of Ketchup. The Ethiopian is injera, curry and all that.

The problem, as you allude to, with climate combat measures is that we have to allow poor countries the same dirty advances that we had, to bring them up to par. That means we have to reduce even more. Not using straws doesn't cut it.

I thought Singer offered a good solution to this issue. Each country would be assigned a certain amount of "carbon credits" based on a variety of metrics GDP etc.

Countries with lower carbon emissions than their credits would be allowed to trade those credits in the open market to countries who need to exceed allowing a greater distribution of wealth.

He mentions that there is flaws most notably around corruption and regulation but interesting suggestion

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Guest]

Natural gas for example is widely used in rich countries for electricity production and is essentially carbon free compared to other carbon fuels for electricity production.

Where on earth did you hear that?

[Raoul Duke III]

Win the IPB Cheltenham Tipping Comp and you might, just about, be able to afford to eat ersatz food in the same hipster joints as Tar.

The big hipster that he\she is.

[Raoul Duke III]

You could probably also splurge on a tank full of fossil fuels.

When you win the IPB Cheltenham Tipping Comp.

[Raoul Duke III]

You could also buy some books by currently fashionable writers on the Important Topics of The Day*. When you win the IPB Cheltenham Tipping Comp.

*Furrowed brow not included.

[AndyFatBastard]

Where on earth did you hear that?

He was clearly comparing it to oil and coal and not making a standalone statement.

[mdoug]

@AJ, I tried last month to win FPL and failed miserably. So I went again.

Sitting 5th overall for this month even with a stupid last minute change to Pogba for -1 so I could easily have won the week.
I feel like I will win the month of March overall though. Shall keep you updated.

[Guest]

You could also buy some books by currently fashionable writers on the Important Topics of The Day*. When you win the IPB Cheltenham Tipping Comp.

*Furrowed brow not included.

You really are at your best during Cheltenham. Inski.

[ArmaniJeans]

@AJ, I tried last month to win FPL and failed miserably. So I went again.

Sitting 5th overall for this month even with a stupid last minute change to Pogba for -1 so I could easily have won the week.
I feel like I will win the month of March overall though. Shall keep you updated.

Excellent, its a noble pursuit.
And you can never have enough FPL keyrings and t-shirts.

[Guest]

He was clearly comparing it to oil and coal and not making a standalone statement.

Even still it's wildly inaccurate. It's at best about 50% if coal and comparable with oil. Certainly not 'essentially carbon free'

[Tar.Aldarion]

Mother is coming to New York also now, gently trying to introduce the term "Michelin star" to somebody whose primary past time is wandering around penny's for hours at a time. I fear there is not somewhere on 5th avenue that is similar.

[Raoul Duke III]

Mother is coming to New York also now, gently trying to introduce the term "Michelin star" to somebody whose primary past time is wandering around penny's for hours at a time. I fear there is not somewhere on 5th avenue that is similar.

Take her to Katz's deli and get her a pastrami sandwich the size of her head*.

*one for strewel

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[brianmc]

I don't know what that graph means. Isn't it vastly better for the environment despite my misunderstanding of the specific chemical decomposition?

Crude oil needs a much more energy intensive refining process than gas and the products are energy expensive to transport to the end user.

Natural gas is used almost directly and extracted more locally to its end user.

Edit: I guess coal is somewhere in the middle.

[Tar.Aldarion]

Take her to Katz's deli and get her a pastrami sandwich the size of her head*.

*one for strewel

It's too late, I've turned a farmer woman into a hipster, she eats vegan with me. She's gone from wtf is this shite to complaining when somewhere doesn't have oat milk

Fed her this ersatz reuben in London recently.

[Raoul Duke III]

That looks edible.

Now tell me what the 'meat' is so I can throw up inside my mouth.

[Guest]

It's too late, I've turned a farmer woman into a hipster, she eats vegan with me. She's gone from wtf is this shite to complaining when somewhere doesn't have oat milk

Fed her this ersatz reuben in London recently.

]

If you're down in Waterford any time soon you should pop out to Tramore to try http://biaandbrew.ie

Dublin veggie wankery with culchie prices, tofu sandwich (really nice tbf) and a coffee roasted on site will leave you with change out of a tenner

[DeadParrot]

Mother is coming to New York also now, gently trying to introduce the term "Michelin star" to somebody whose primary past time is wandering around penny's for hours at a time. I fear there is not somewhere on 5th avenue that is similar.

There are loads.
Conways beside MSG
Century 21 near Fulton St
China Town !!
I think there is a Primark in Brooklyn too

[Solksjaer!]

Happy donkeys day
-Shane Ross

[DeadParrot]

Happy donkeys day
-Shane Ross

check yo PM

[Mellor]

I don't know what that graph means. Isn't it vastly better for the environment despite my misunderstanding of the specific chemical decomposition?

Well for s start it's not a graph. It's a diagram of the molecules involved in burning gas..
You said it was carbon free. It isn't. Natural gas is CH4, which means it's 75% carbon. That carbon is released when it's burned. It may be better than coal, but it's not carbon free

[Denny Crane]

To be fair to Karen Bradley, when you see May continue on, why would you resign.

[mocata]

Arlene Foster got an award for Female politician of the year, all 3 ladies must have underwent similar treatments to remove all self-awareness and aversion to cognitive dissonance.

[Tar.Aldarion]

That looks edible.

Now tell me what the 'meat' is so I can throw up inside my mouth.

https://www.instagram.com/rudysdvd/ No idea (best to not ask questions ), it's a great place in Camden market though!

If you're down in Waterford any time soon you should pop out to Tramore to try C

Dublin veggie wankery with culchie prices, tofu sandwich (really nice tbf) and a coffee roasted on site will leave you with change out of a tenner

Looks really good thanks, doubt I'll get out that way soon though. If you're ever down in Sligo town try Sweet Beat, excellent food, similar kinda place.

There are loads.
Conways beside MSG
Century 21 near Fulton St
China Town !!
I think there is a Primark in Brooklyn too

Thanks! Will look those up to see. Chinatown sounds like somewhere she can haggle away to her hearts content. I unleashed her on the market vendors in London and they wilted like daisy's against her torrent.

If I visit Brooklyn there is a $600 jacket with my name on it that I'm trying to avoid buying, my mother would faint.

[Flushdraw]

Some poker talk

Was watching a bit of the Super High Roller game on Twitch. 7 left, 6 paid

Timothy Adams opens the HJ 2x playing 60bb and Justin Bonomo in the CO has 22bbs and J10s.

There are a 16bb, 16bb and 12bb stack left (The 12BB stack is David Peters, who is in for 4 bullets - over $1m - and 6th place pays $820k)

Adams has been playing really well, but he's not been splashing about too much. That honour is Brynn Kenney who's the CL

Do you ever shove here?

[shrapnel]

@ Situation, you lumping on France at 9/2?

[Hitchhiker's Guide To...]

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[Raoul Duke III]

@ Situation, you lumping on France at 9/2?

What's the spread?

[shrapnel]

What's the spread?

14. seems a lot tbh

[shrapnel]

14. seems a lot tbh

wow, sky bet are offering 7/1