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    How was this played?

    Hand is from the Stars 10k $11 buyin.

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 11 Tournament, 200/400 Blinds 50 Ante (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    saw flop | saw showdown

    UTG+1 (t7328)
    MP1 (t4998)
    Hero (MP2) (t21320)
    MP3 (t16293)
    CO (t18346)
    Button (t23793)
    SB (t7735)
    BB (t20937)
    UTG (t24755)

    Hero's M: 20.30

    Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J, J
    3 folds, Hero bets t1000, 1 fold, CO raises to t1600, 3 folds, Hero calls t600

    Flop: (t4250) 10, 8, 2 (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO checks

    Turn: (t4250) 5 (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO checks

    River: (t4250) Q (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets t800,

    Hero???

    I've just been moved to this table so have no reads on villain. We are both above avg and approaching the bubble.

    Not really just the river decision, if even tbh, I'm looking for thoughts on how this was played on all streets?

    If you would play it different and 4bet pre or lead out on flop, turn or river, then how much?

    Basically I want to know what is the best line to take and why?

    Thought appreciated, please and thanks.

    #2
    id fire the turn - about 2k

    as played Id call the river

    Comment


      #3
      yeah bet the turn

      flat the river, he could easily have AQ and hit it

      Comment


        #4
        Without reads its hard to figure out villains play .
        I think as played you can only call now and expect to see AK,AQ,

        I dont put him on over pairs as he has position and he would most probably have bet the flop or turn unless he's a total nit and is afraid your trapping with a set.

        I dont think you can put a set in his range as played.
        I just think villain is in the same situation as you with no reads and is playing it carefull and maybe got lucky on the end with AQ.

        It's just the way i see it , but my game is in such bad shape right now i could be totally wrong.
        I bet the flop and if he flats then we know we are most probably behind and can chk call or chk fold from there depending on his line.

        Comment


          #5
          The villain has played this hand terribly.

          Why raise to 1600 if we’re not going to bet a checked flop and turn.

          If he’s a premium hand he’s managed to get zero value for it.

          If he’s air he’s getting very few hands to fold.

          Automatic call on the river for me. I’d also bet the turn for about 2.5k.

          Had you planned on check/raising or just check calling the flop and turn?
          You see Billy it's like this, you either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by DAMO72 View Post

            I bet the flop and if he flats then we know we are most probably behind and can chk call or chk fold from there depending on his line.
            Why bet flop with an overpair if you think you are behind when called?

            I prob c/c all 3 streets. Betting turn is kind of meh imo as he calls with very little worse and rarely folds better and also river is very tricky when he flats

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by handofgod View Post
              Why bet flop with an overpair if you think you are behind when called?

              I prob c/c all 3 streets. Betting turn is kind of meh imo as he calls with very little worse and rarely folds better and also river is very tricky when he flats
              I know we always want to get calls from worse hands and folds from better but sometimes I think this is over valued in tournament play.

              By not betting the turn we’re giving a lot of hands a free ride to the river.

              It seems betting when we are ahead is almost frowned upon by poker players these days.

              We have an overpair to the board and we don’t want to bet?

              Checking the turn is too weak passive for me.
              You see Billy it's like this, you either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                id fire the turn - about 2k

                as played Id call the river
                This, always bet turn here for value/protection. River call is fine as played even though he will turn up with a q quite a bit, he will have ak/aj and air enough to make it call.
                "Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson

                Comment


                  #9
                  Ty for the comments.

                  Originally posted by Reaps View Post
                  Had you planned on check/raising or just check calling the flop and turn?
                  Never check raising at any stage of this hand. My line would have to check/call flop and check/fold turn if the hand played out like that. Would check/raising here be as bad as 4betting pre?


                  Originally posted by handofgod View Post
                  Why bet flop with an overpair if you think you are behind when called?
                  This. Does nobody think a min 3bet preflop from an unknown villain should be treated/respected as strong?

                  Originally posted by Reaps View Post
                  We have an overpair to the board and we don’t want to bet?

                  Checking the turn is too weak passive for me.
                  I understand I played the hand passively but what range of hands do we beat that min 3bets pre? AK and lose to QQ, KK, AA. I don't know how many hands make this move though.






                  So say I lead the turn for about 2.9k. Are we always folding to a reraise? If villains flats are we leading the riv with about 10k in the pot, or checking? If we check riv and villains bets, how much can we call? What are we beating to a call or raise at any stage of the hand?

                  Fwiw, I took the above line based on the min 3bet pre.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    im very suspicious of min raises

                    sometimes its a misclick though from the player, depends on how quick they raise

                    from an unknown villain i'd play it cautiously anyway

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Caf View Post

                      I understand I played the hand passively but what range of hands do we beat that min 3bets pre? AK and lose to QQ, KK, AA. I don't know how many hands make this move though.
                      I think the min raise doesn't necessarily mean strength. He could do this with hands that play well in position. Suited connectors, pocket pairs etc.

                      I think you'll see J10s A10s sometimes. Also 77 99 and some pocket pairs.

                      He played the hand very strange no matter what he had.

                      I'm sure you added a note to him after this hand
                      You see Billy it's like this, you either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I imagine we are ahead after he checks back the flop. Lead the turn for about 70% of the pot imo. call river and think why the fook didnt i bet the turn

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by crow View Post
                          im very suspicious of min raises

                          sometimes its a misclick though from the player, depends on how quick they raise

                          from an unknown villain i'd play it cautiously anyway
                          It wasn't an instant 3bet so I assumed it wasn't a missclick but I understand what you're saying and I tend to play cautiously to an unknown.

                          Originally posted by Reaps View Post
                          I think the min raise doesn't necessarily mean strength. He could do this with hands that play well in position. Suited connectors, pocket pairs etc.

                          I think you'll see J10s A10s sometimes. Also 77 99 and some pocket pairs.

                          He played the hand very strange no matter what he had.

                          I'm sure you added a note to him after this hand
                          Ha! I got straight onto making a note alright...weird hand. The in raise seems to be coming into play a lot more lately, I've noticed, and it does lead me into some odd situations since I'm rarely folding a hand worth opening with to this min bet.

                          Originally posted by a-k-47 View Post
                          I imagine we are ahead after he checks back the flop. Lead the turn for about 70% of the pot imo. call river and think why the fook didnt i bet the turn
                          What are we doing to a reraise on turn or riv? Are you leading turn and riv if villain flats on turn?

                          Also, if this had been a 3x 3bet pre, do we always fold?

                          Spots like these with JJ or similar hands keep messing with my head. I thought I would play it weak and se what happens. Obv I am not doing this because the bubble is approaching but just because of the nature of the preflop action and an unknown villain.


                          As played I did snap call btw. Think I'm folding if river bet is over half pot though. Flawed?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Min-reraise then check is SO bad from villian no matter what he has. If he he's ahead he has gotten no value and if he was behind he didn't take the chance to follow up with his preflop strength. So he gets little value from a made hand and his bluffs don't work.

                            I don't mind the way you played it without reads, I think pocket 10's can be in his range and he won't fold AA,KK,QQ to a turn bet. You could argue that you could bet the turn for protection but you're in a world of pain if he flats and bets big on the river. He could still have AK and you are folding the best hand.
                            As played I call the river and just chuckle when I'm shown 10's.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by gorrrr72 View Post
                              Min-reraise then check is SO bad from villian no matter what he has. If he he's ahead he has gotten no value and if he was behind he didn't take the chance to follow up with his preflop strength. So he gets little value from a made hand and his bluffs don't work.

                              I don't mind the way you played it without reads, I think pocket 10's can be in his range and he won't fold AA,KK,QQ to a turn bet. You could argue that you could bet the turn for protection but you're in a world of pain if he flats and bets big on the river. He could still have AK and you are folding the best hand.
                              As played I call the river and just chuckle when I'm shown 10's.
                              So if we take the line of leading the turn, would we be folding to any reraise? I've often taken this line and sometimes found myself, like you say, in a world of pain on the river when flatted. If we get to the river after leading the turn is it a c/f or c/c or does it depend on his betting sizing?

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Caf View Post
                                So if we take the line of leading the turn, would we be folding to any reraise? I've often taken this line and sometimes found myself, like you say, in a world of pain on the river when flatted. If we get to the river after leading the turn is it a c/f or c/c or does it depend on his betting sizing?
                                When someone reraises preflop I always take the most cautious route unless I have reads on the player or make a monster hand myself. So if I'm assuming he is ABC then I never lead the turn, but if I did and he raised I would fold, and if he flats I c/f the river.

                                You have to ask yourself why he re-raised preflop then checks a non scary flop. If he is absolutly terrible he could have AK I suppose but for me a 3 bet pre then check the flop shows strength not weakness. If he happens to have AK then he only has 6 outs on the river, if he gets there you probably call a small bet and kick yourself for not leading the turn.

                                Comment

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