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Old 23-08-13, 01:16   #3221
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Originally Posted by Hectorjelly View Post
Live turbo (20 min blinds). Cutoff shoves for about 5 blinds. The button starts to think about it. Is it bad etiquette for the big blind to ask how much the all in is for whilst the button is still thinking?
Definetly. I'd treat it the same as a player who has already folded asking how much it is. The only player that should comment on a hand is the player who's turn it is to act imo
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Old 23-08-13, 01:51   #3222
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I don't think it is tbh. Saw a player do this in a satellite recently. Every time a shorty moved all in this guy would ask for a count just so it was in peoples minds that it was maybe a very short shove that they have to call. It was smart play imo.
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Old 23-08-13, 01:56   #3223
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I don't think it is tbh. Saw a player do this in a satellite recently. Every time a shorty moved all in this guy would ask for a count just so it was in peoples minds that it was maybe a very short shove that they have to call. It was smart play imo.
Say i'm in seat 10 and i shove a big stack of chips in and say 'All in'. The SB in seat 1 looks up and sees a big stack and looks like he as a decision and thinks for 60 seconds. I think it would be completely wrong for someone else to ask how much it is. Say for arguements sake it's 2 big stacks of small denomination chips and it's only a little more to call, why should the SB be alerted to this by another player if it's his mistake for not noticing or asking how much it is?
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Old 23-08-13, 02:10   #3224
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Originally Posted by Flushdraw View Post
Say i'm in seat 10 and i shove a big stack of chips in and say 'All in'. The SB in seat 1 looks up and sees a big stack and looks like he as a decision and thinks for 60 seconds. I think it would be completely wrong for someone else to ask how much it is. Say for arguements sake it's 2 big stacks of small denomination chips and it's only a little more to call, why should the SB be alerted to this by another player if it's his mistake for not noticing or asking how much it is?
In your example If I'm in the bb and have cards on front of me then I'm well within my rights to ask for a count. Especially if its in my best interests for everyone to know that a shove is smaller than it looks. I personally wouldn't consider it unethical anyway. People who have folded saying things like ah its only 3bbs he has to call would be a bit different.
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Old 23-08-13, 03:32   #3225
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Definetly. I'd treat it the same as a player who has already folded asking how much it is. The only player that should comment on a hand is the player who's turn it is to act imo
I don't really get this, as you shouldn't comment on a hand in progress whether its your turn or not (bar HU). Plus if you aren't in the hand does this mean you can never ask how much an all in bet is for?

The way I see it (which could well be wrong) is that it should be clear to anyone that the BB has an interest in the pot no matter what his cards are so by asking he doesn't reveal any information and shouldn't change anything for the button, one of us is going to have to ask how many chips it is anyway in a couple of seconds; so why unnecessarily slow the game down?

I think this is actually a slightly unusual position (I never remember it happening to me before) because usually the first thing the button will do is ask for a count, and the shove looked so short I knew I was likely to end up calling.
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Old 23-08-13, 10:40   #3226
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The way I see it (which could well be wrong) is that it should be clear to anyone that the BB has an interest in the pot no matter what his cards are so by asking he doesn't reveal any information and shouldn't change anything for the button, one of us is going to have to ask how many chips it is anyway in a couple of seconds; so why unnecessarily slow the game down? .
Don't agree at all tbh. If i'm in the BB with a garbage hand and i'm not getting anywhere near the price of an autocall, then i couldn't care less how much the shove is. The same applies if i have a top 5% hand and i wouldn't want to let the SB know i have an interest in the hand. The SB could be sitting there with K10s and would be calling, but once we ask how much it is, this could definetly change how the SB plays his hand. On the opposite end of the scale, it's similar to the BB motioning to muck his cards as soon as the action gets to him.

I pressume this is the Fitz, and it's one of the few places that don't announce the size of the bet once it's made. The situation wouldn't crop up in a lot of other places.

If UTG moved in, what if a guy in mid position or the button asked how much the bet was? That could change the action in front of him. I'm fully in favour of players not revealing anything about the strength of their hand or what action they may take until action gets to them.
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Old 23-08-13, 11:23   #3227
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Player has to wait until it's his/her action
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Old 23-08-13, 13:56   #3228
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Got two spots from last night of an ethical nature I guess, first hand was from early on in the tourney, second late enough in cash. I was involved in one, won't say which.

Hand 1: Action gets to the river at 50-100 with a small bit of action 4 ways, board runs KJ105A no potential flush, first 3 guys check and button fires like 75% pot, first two guys fold and button exposes his hand which is A10, guy who still has decision, says well tbh I have you beat but I don't have a straight but I really was going to fold to your bet. He then shows his AK and folds and doesn't decide to take guys chips, no floor called.

Hand 2: Action gets to river with perhaps 80e in the pot 3 ways board is like 98624. First guy bets like 25e 2nd guy calls and remaining guy lifts up his cards really high and slowly but doesn't muck or say fold but a fold is definitely his immediate intention. First 2 guys declare one pair each and remaining player, says I haven't folded.(just to say it definitely wasn't an angleshoot although may sound like it). Floor called and rules that last guys hand is obv still alive, he tanks and says I have to call with his 2 pair. First guy is calm and chilled although a little annoyed however 2nd guy gets very annoyed and instantly cashes out cursing etc etc. Winner of pot gives guy who's left his river bet back which is A fine gesture imo.

Although both spots are quite similar from a moral standpoint, they are different, if guy in first scenario was in the same spot in cash, does he fold or if deep in big tourney etc. Never asked TD but can hand 1 be classed as chip dumping?
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Old 23-08-13, 14:50   #3229
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Hand 1 is definite soft play/collusion or whatever you want to call it. Hand is shown, knows he has that hand beat and then doesn't call or raise!!! WTF I would have called floor if I had been at the table.

Hand 2 seems fine as long as what you say that it wasn't an angle is pretty clear to the other players
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Old 23-08-13, 18:05   #3230
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Hand one it seems like the guy realises the other player made a mistake and didn't want to take advantage of it. I think he should be applauded for it, not accused of chip dumping. (Why would anyone dump a small amount chips to another player in such an obvious manner) Although the guy who exposed his cards should be more careful.

Hand 2 is much trickier for a variety of reasons
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Old 23-08-13, 18:10   #3231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hectorjelly View Post
Hand one it seems like the guy realises the other player made a mistake and didn't want to take advantage of it. I think he should be applauded for it, not accused of chip dumping. (Why would anyone dump a small amount chips to another player in such an obvious manner) Although the guy who exposed his cards should be more careful.

Hand 2 is much trickier for a variety of reasons
Simply because me and HJ have never agreed, I'll say I say was the guy in hand 1. Everyone at the table agreed with Ste except one man who had same idea as HJ, as I mentioned in OP I don't believe my morals would hold as strong in a cash game or big tourney, even though in theory it should.
Just to say I didn't know the guy at all and would never have folded vs a friend
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Old 14-09-13, 09:20   #3232
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Stuck a few quid on ipoker for the first time in ages. Playing $20NL 6-max speed/rush poker predominately. Seems to be fairly straightforward ABC stuff from what I can see. Nobody stacking off ridiculously pre-flop and 3-betting doesn't seem to be go-to response to an aggressive player.

Anybody have links to decent articles/posts on adjustments for this turbo poker? Even some tips on it would be great. Its a quite some time since I played and I'm definitely rusty.
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Old 14-09-13, 11:41   #3233
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Folks, I'd like to get views of you fellow experts in terms of the following:

3 nights in the same week, playing live poker in the same venue, villains are different each night. I'm at (twice) or close to (once) the final table in mtt. I'm short-stacked compared to other stacks; in terms of bb I have 10 to 15, can't recall exactly for each situation. I feel I need to pick a spot and shove, which I do preflop in all cases.

Night 1: I shove with 77, one caller with AKo, river comes A, boom for me.

Night 2: I shove with 66, one caller with AQ (off suit I think), river comes A, boom me

Night 3: I shove with KK, two callers, QQ and 1010. Flop brings a K, I'm rubbing my hands. Rives completes a flush for the QQ. Boom me yet again.

On each night I shake the hand of the victor, say a cheery goodnight to all, walk calmly into the night - and bang my head off/kick every lamppost on the way home!

I'm assuming above are just down to variance and that I will (may!) get a compensating rungood at some stage; but I'm also wondering is there something about my play (or table image) that I'm missing; some inherent flaws in the plays I've illustrated?

Any/all views/opinions/advice, no matter how unflattering!, would be very welcome.

Many thanks, sorry if this is a bit lengthy.
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Old 14-09-13, 11:51   #3234
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Originally Posted by Rahenyrhythm View Post
Folks, I'd like to get views of you fellow experts in terms of the following:

3 nights in the same week, playing live poker in the same venue, villains are different each night. I'm at (twice) or close to (once) the final table in mtt. I'm short-stacked compared to other stacks; in terms of bb I have 10 to 15, can't recall exactly for each situation. I feel I need to pick a spot and shove, which I do preflop in all cases.

Night 1: I shove with 77, one caller with AKo, river comes A, boom for me.

Night 2: I shove with 66, one caller with AQ (off suit I think), river comes A, boom me

Night 3: I shove with KK, two callers, QQ and 1010. Flop brings a K, I'm rubbing my hands. Rives completes a flush for the QQ. Boom me yet again.

On each night I shake the hand of the victor, say a cheery goodnight to all, walk calmly into the night - and bang my head off/kick every lamppost on the way home!

I'm assuming above are just down to variance and that I will (may!) get a compensating rungood at some stage; but I'm also wondering is there something about my play (or table image) that I'm missing; some inherent flaws in the plays I've illustrated?

Any/all views/opinions/advice, no matter how unflattering!, would be very welcome.

Many thanks, sorry if this is a bit lengthy.
all looks completely standard from the details you have given, you lost 2 flips and got sucked out on once, gg
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Old 14-09-13, 12:17   #3235
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Thanks for the bit of reassurance, chips!
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Old 14-09-13, 16:28   #3236
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@Rahenyrhythm they seem super standard shoves but you may want to try and look at your game in the earlier stages as you say you are short vs the rest of the table. Maybe you are playing too tight and consequently end up with little fold equity in the later stages. Be aware when you have 18 to 25 bb that this is the 'reshove' stage where its very profitable to go over the top of probable light opens from big stacks. Winning 1 or two of these without showdown keeps your stack ticking along or if you get called you get a chance to double up to 40+ bigs where you have all your options back.
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Old 14-09-13, 18:24   #3237
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And fiend,many thanks for that good advice. To be honest, that's the question/conundrum I have been asking myself, ie, how to arrive at the final table without being short-stacked, and this of course goes to the earlier plays. I will consider, revise, and work on those aspects.

Many thanks to you and again to chips, for taking the time and trouble to reply.
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Old 25-09-13, 13:32   #3238
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Fun hand in a €110 F/O Last night. Standard of players in this particular hand would be average - poor if it makes any difference to your thinking.

I had min-raised UTG and been called in the 3 spots. Then c-bet 3/4 pot and called in 3 spots again.

Holding J10 we get to the turn 4 handed with 15k in the middle (I've 14k behind - 30bbs)

Q97 6

P1 shoves 14k
P2 shoves 13k
P3 shoves 20k

Hero?

Last edited by Dice75; 25-09-13 at 13:39.
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Old 25-09-13, 13:47   #3239
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Fun hand in a 110 F/O Last night. Standard of players in this particular hand would be average - poor if it makes any difference to your thinking.

I had min-raised UTG and been called in the 3 spots. Then c-bet 3/4 pot and called in 3 spots again.

Holding J10 we get to the turn 4 handed with 15k in the middle (I've 14k behind - 30bbs)

Q97 6

P1 shoves 14k
P2 shoves 13k
P3 shoves 20k

Hero?
Would imagine you have far less outs than you'd hope. Would be surprised if the nut/higher flush draw isn't out there, and maybe a made straight or a fish with 98/88 so we'd be hoping for a red K or a left over 8. There isn't even a side pot to pick up. Would guess that nobody slow played 2 pair or a set on this flop, and nobody stuck around with 66 so can't see any sets or 2 pairs out there, so it's just other draws you're up against so i sigh fold.
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Old 12-11-13, 17:50   #3240
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Bit vague but anyway, just happened so curious.

Moved to new Table of the Hot $16.50 with blinds at 20/40 (early days)

UTG open shoves 3550 and its folded to you in CO (3500)

Quick OPR shows villain to be big loser at ABI of $9 over 1000 games.

Calling range?
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