Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

WSOP ME hand

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    WSOP ME hand

    Hand from ME which has been bothering me every so often since

    Start of day 3. This is only 2nd hand of the day and a new table so no history with villian.

    Im playing 77.5k and and villain covers

    Blinds 500/1000/100. I have AA in MP and raise to 2300. Villain is in BB and calls.

    Flop K83dd. Villain checks and i CB 3600.

    Turn Q and villain leads for 10k and i call.

    River 10d and villain leads for 20k

    Looking for thoughts on turn and river really. Villains lead on turn messed with my head a little

    #2
    Its easy to assume you folded the river or else called and lost otherwise it would not been bothering you, but for me, against a player I have no history on, I call there every time.
    (never like it but always call)
    twitter
    moneybookers

    Comment


      #3
      I play it the same and fold the river.
      Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
      I like this heat - some proper music innit.
      None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Starvin Marvin View Post
        I play it the same and fold the river.
        +1

        Comment


          #5
          River seems like an easy fold. Its just hard to figure out a hand he gets the river this way that is a bluff. The turn lead is intriguing as not many players check call the flop and then lead the turn with a draw, I guess something like a QdJd hand would make sense or he could be bet folding two pair/sets otr

          Comment


            #6
            I would have made it about 27 or 2800 preflop and find it hard to get away from the river, 9/10 I would call it

            Comment


              #7
              Seems like an easy river fold to me. You beat nothing he's value betting with and I can't see this being a bluff.

              I play it the same as you ftr, and I definitely fold the river.

              Comment


                #8
                I bet around 3,200 preflop considering the antes.

                Is it 2 diamonds on flop or 3? Assuming it's 2 I'd consider raising the turn to 25k.

                Perhaps I'm a little aggressive here - thoughts anyone.

                If he reraises I'd throw my hand away.

                Also it leaves him in a scary spot on the river and puts the pressure to make decisions back on him for the turn and river.
                You see Billy it's like this, you either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked

                Comment


                  #9
                  Raise/folding the Turn would cost you half(?) maybe more of your stack and would be terrible.

                  Id suggest that KQ would make up a good percentage of the villains range? as he obv doesnt want you checking behind on the turn

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Reaps View Post
                    I bet around 3,200 preflop considering the antes.
                    Too big imo. Anywhere from 2300-2700 is fine imo. With antes we should be stealing a lot more and this makes our steals cheaper for the times we get 3bet and let our bag of spanners go.

                    Originally posted by Reaps View Post
                    Is it 2 diamonds on flop or 3?
                    2.

                    Originally posted by Reaps View Post
                    Assuming it's 2 I'd consider raising the turn to 25k.
                    Why? What worse hand continues to a turn raise? What do you do on the river if the villain flats the 25k? Are you raising for information?

                    Originally posted by Reaps View Post
                    Also it leaves him in a scary spot on the river and puts the pressure to make decisions back on him for the turn and river.
                    No it doesn't. All it accomplishes is allowing him to play perfectly against us.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by DarvinMoon View Post
                      River seems like an easy fold. Its just hard to figure out a hand he gets the river this way that is a bluff. The turn lead is intriguing as not many players check call the flop and then lead the turn with a draw, I guess something like a QdJd hand would make sense or he could be bet folding two pair/sets otr

                      This is the part that i am really looking for input on. His check call on flop and then turn lead was the part i found unusual and was just wondering how people would react to it

                      river input appreciated aswell but i think thats more straight forward

                      preflop and flop i am happy enough with sizing
                      Last edited by Funkymonk; 22-07-10, 16:36.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yeah his turn line is weird. Best way for him to play for stacks would be the c/r the turn. Though as it's been said he might want to stop you from checking back medium strength hands(which make up most of your range on that board imo) for pot control.

                        Without any reads its hard to know what level the villain is on, his thought process and if he's capable of floating OOP and trying to blow you off the type of hand you have. You're quite face up on the turn after calling imo and the river is a great bluffing card for him.

                        It's so hard to know against an unknown. There are players out there I would call against, but against most players, it's a fold on the river.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Turn donk is strange but i definitely think his range is sets and KQ that dont want you to check back. Maybe something like JTdd either but his large-ish bet sizing makes me think its more likely to be a made hand than a draw.
                          Originally posted by ArmaniJeans
                          I like this heat - some proper music innit.
                          None of the 'black disabled lesbian warbling backwards' stuff that the other players inflicted on me.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by DarvinMoon View Post
                            River seems like an easy fold. Its just hard to figure out a hand he gets the river this way that is a bluff. The turn lead is intriguing as not many players check call the flop and then lead the turn with a draw, I guess something like a QdJd hand would make sense or he could be bet folding two pair/sets otr
                            Very insightful post! Even fewer players are leading a draw for 80% of the pot. He wants to take it down at that point - this has gotta be 88>33>KQ (and we can't rule out QQ). River laydown is a pain but totally correct.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Moneymaker View Post

                              Why? What worse hand continues to a turn raise? What do you do on the river if the villain flats the 25k? Are you raising for information?
                              .

                              why are you so dead against raising the turn

                              our hand is most likely ahead here, what cards can fall on the river that improve our hand?

                              we are calling 10k in the hope of one card hiting that will improve our hand. versus his range that a ton of cards can improve for him. make him pay if he wants to see another card.

                              flatting the turn has just let him play the way he wants to play the hand and now we are left with the decision



                              "Remember the time he ate my goldfish? And you lied and said I never had goldfish. Then why did I have the bowl, Bart? Why did I have the bowl?"

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Eight-Ball View Post
                                why are you so dead against raising the turn

                                our hand is most likely ahead here, what cards can fall on the river that improve our hand?

                                we are calling 10k in the hope of one card hiting that will improve our hand. versus his range that a ton of cards can improve for him. make him pay if he wants to see another card.

                                flatting the turn has just let him play the way he wants to play the hand and now we are left with the decision
                                raising the turn is effectively turning our hand into a bluff

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  If we have the ace of diamonds does anyone shove river?

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by The C Kid View Post
                                    If we have the ace of diamonds does anyone shove river?
                                    depends

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                      raising the turn is effectively turning our hand into a bluff
                                      why??
                                      what are bluffing/representing??

                                      are we not trying to stop him from drawing, afterall thats what everyone seems to think here atm that he has filled his flush or straight.

                                      why are we calling the turn and then folding the river when a flush or straight completes?.
                                      if we are calling the turn with the intention of getting more of his chips on the river when he fails to make his hand that is not going to happen the only way you are going to get more of his chips on the river is if he completes.
                                      if we think he has a set or KQ why are we calling the turn?



                                      "Remember the time he ate my goldfish? And you lied and said I never had goldfish. Then why did I have the bowl, Bart? Why did I have the bowl?"

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by The C Kid View Post
                                        If we have the ace of diamonds does anyone shove river?
                                        Prob should of said earlier I have Ad. I actually discussed raising river briefly with jackyback shortly after the hand

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Eight-Ball View Post
                                          why??
                                          what are bluffing/representing??

                                          are we not trying to stop him from drawing, afterall thats what everyone seems to think here atm that he has filled his flush or straight.

                                          why are we calling the turn and then folding the river when a flush or straight completes?.
                                          if we are calling the turn with the intention of getting more of his chips on the river when he fails to make his hand that is not going to happen the only way you are going to get more of his chips on the river is if he completes.
                                          if we think he has a set or KQ why are we calling the turn?
                                          Are you calling if he jams over your turn raise? If you intend to raise fold you may as well be doing it with a bag of spanners than an overpair

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                            Are you calling if he jams over your turn raise? If you intend to raise fold you may as well be doing it with a bag of spanners than an overpair
                                            probably or maybe just shove myself and take away that weapon from his arsenal.

                                            but what are you hoping to achieve with calling?



                                            "Remember the time he ate my goldfish? And you lied and said I never had goldfish. Then why did I have the bowl, Bart? Why did I have the bowl?"

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Eight-Ball View Post
                                              probably or maybe just shove myself and take away that weapon from his arsenal.

                                              but what are you hoping to achieve with calling?
                                              I think calling to re-evaluate is the most +EV option we have available.
                                              Im certainly not folding and Im just not a fan of raising a donk lead in this spot because I have no idea what it means

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Raising turn would be really bad. You get shoved on quite a lot, and you are way overrepping your hand.

                                                I fold river as well. I think thats clear enough.

                                                His range is interesting and pretty weird. I think a big draw that perhaps picked up more outs on the turn and got excited, KQ, or to a lesser extent 33 and 88. There may be some other weird one pair hands in there that mean calling turn is OK though.

                                                I very much dislike shoving river due to stack to pot ratio and that his range is so strong. People hero call more than they hero fold imo.
                                                Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
                                                  Raising turn would be really bad. You get shoved on quite a lot, and you are way overrepping your hand.

                                                  I fold river as well. I think thats clear enough.

                                                  His range is interesting and pretty weird. I think a big draw that perhaps picked up more outs on the turn and got excited, KQ, or to a lesser extent 33 and 88. There may be some other weird one pair hands in there that mean calling turn is OK though.

                                                  I very much dislike shoving river due to stack to pot ratio and that his range is so strong. People hero call more than they hero fold imo.
                                                  what are you afraid of on the river that you are not afraid of on the turn??



                                                  "Remember the time he ate my goldfish? And you lied and said I never had goldfish. Then why did I have the bowl, Bart? Why did I have the bowl?"

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Being the second hand of the day is it possible he's trying to send out a message that he will defend his blind?

                                                    He may have floated the flop with a pre concieved plan to lead the turn and take down the hand from any continuation bet on the flop.

                                                    If he did bluff the 10k lead on the turn this is a great bet as people seem to be giving him credit for both a made hand on the turn and a draw.

                                                    Now his turn bet has gained him credit for any river. A draw card hits, he bets we fold. A blank hits, he bets we fold.

                                                    I think I may experiment with taking the villians line if I get a chance
                                                    You see Billy it's like this, you either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Weird enough line by villian, id preceive a turn donk as pretty weak usually and not a nut hand, typically a hand that has picked up equity somehow on the turn and is semibluffing, obviouisly it could be a hand that hit 2 pair too and doesnt want you checking behind. I'd definitely peel the turn anyhow and with the intention of calling alot of blank rivers. On the 10d though id say I'd leave it go, hits too many flush draws/ turned gutters hit. His betsizing is pretty big though and his line is so bluffy that I can how its a spot where we could hero call alot but id say its best to just fold on this river without any reads.
                                                      "Don't overcomplicate a straight forward game with mathematical bullshit and dicussing different lines with your geeky friends" Chris Olaafson

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        OP obv doesn't have the nuts on river then?

                                                        K83 dd means only two diamonds?

                                                        I agree with line us its either J10 dd type hands that improved on turn or a hand he's afraid he won't get value from unless he leads turn

                                                        such a big bet though, leans towards bluffy

                                                        sick spot and i prob fold turn tbh without knowing wtf he's at

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Thanks for all the replies

                                                          I know the river is a fold but i was trying to figure out if anyone else would just fold to the turn donk. To be honest the only made hand i could see him do it with was perhaps KQ

                                                          Anyways for anyone that wants to know he had J9dd for the turned gutterball to go with his flush draw

                                                          Comment

                                                          Working...
                                                          X