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    Sunday Million Hand

    Just played this hand in my first ever Sunday Million.. Was a bit of a weird shove on the turn IMO. I was intending to check/call all the way. BTW... Please don't say fold pre.. I know that. And also, please don't say if you know it, why don't you fold pre..



    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 215 Tournament, 250/500 Blinds 50 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

    MP1 (t38016)
    MP2 (t61016)
    MP3 (t22579)
    CO (t14663)
    Button (t12333)
    SB (t31614)
    BB (t26305)
    UTG (t23963)
    Hero (UTG+1) (t30466)

    Hero's M: 25.39

    Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9h, Ah
    1 fold, Hero bets t1000, 2 folds, MP3 calls t1000, 4 folds

    Flop: (t3200) 7h, Js, 5c (2 players)
    Hero bets t1800, MP3 calls t1800

    Turn: (t6800) Ac (2 players)
    Hero checks, MP3 bets t19729 (All-In)

    #2
    "I know I shouldn't have made out with that fatty, but ignore that part. How do I bang her?".

    Comment


      #3
      I wouldn't fold pre. I'd be raising every possible opportunity and this is one.

      I fold now though

      Comment


        #4
        Don't fold pre
        Don't check the turn
        I probably just bet/call the turn

        Comment


          #5
          Seems kinda crazy to b/c turn with tpmk and expect to be good but y'all play a lot more tourneys than me and I'm still in the dark ages of thinking minraising in EP is godawful, so away with ye! It's a b/f on the turn for me.

          Comment


            #6
            I'd prob fold pre, as played bet ~4k/fold turn.

            Comment


              #7
              Presume we have no reads since none posted?

              Folding, pre too(only mentioning pre since some people don't fold). I don't mind leading the turn but I prob check it just as often.

              Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
              Don't fold pre
              Don't check the turn
              I probably just bet/call the turn
              Don't think bet/calling the turn would be good in the long run. Bluffs and semibluffs is all we beat and people rarely bluff in that spot, especially for tourney life. Even worse aces would tend to flat but if they didn't fold pre they'd fold the flop. Unless we have a decent read on villain I don't think I'd ever b/c.

              Comment


                #8
                Villain was new to the table. 4 hands.

                Yeah, I only checked the turn to let the hands I beat bluff at it/pot control slightly. Felt like I'm not getting called by much worse really. Would rather do that than bet fold. Feels like there's more value in it and I can decide on the river then.

                FWIW I folded, I think there's a decent chance I was ahead, but felt like I still had a decent stack to play with.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Looks like he is hoping the ace hit you big. Don't think he is shoving light here.

                  Are you still going?
                  His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Aye... 228/1119

                    Hope I win!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Good luck, don't get to play the milly that often due to work the next day. Defo gonna play the 10 million one though.
                      His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        How long will the 10 milly one run for? As in what time Irish time will it end? - midday, two in the afternoon or something?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by 8611 View Post
                          How long will the 10 milly one run for? As in what time Irish time will it end? - midday, two in the afternoon or something?
                          At least 12. Played the red spade when on holidays in the summer, that had 30,000 runners and I think it was 6 or 7 in the morning with 200 left and that was shorter starting stack and that finished at 10.
                          Last edited by elbows; 28-11-11, 00:25.
                          His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Ok... Here's another... About 20 off the bubble. He'd been at the table only 14 hands. Playing 17/17 FWIW


                            PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 215 Tournament, 1250/2500 Blinds 250 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

                            SB (t52834)
                            BB (t32390)
                            UTG (t36490)
                            UTG+1 (t155035)
                            MP1 (t112217)
                            MP2 (t18789)
                            MP3 (t35510)
                            CO (t209707)
                            Hero (Button) (t79282)

                            Hero's M: 13.21

                            Preflop: Hero is Button with Js, Jh
                            1 fold, UTG+1 bets t5625, 4 folds, Hero calls t5625, 2 folds

                            Flop: (t17250) 8d, 4d, Kc (2 players)
                            UTG+1 bets t8950, Hero calls t8950

                            Turn: (t35150) 9c (2 players)
                            UTG+1 bets t16250, Hero calls t16250

                            River: (t67650) 5s (2 players)
                            UTG+1 bets t67650


                            What the bloomin heck do I do here?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by KK82 View Post
                              Ok... Here's another... About 20 off the bubble. He'd been at the table only 14 hands. Playing 17/17 FWIW


                              PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 215 Tournament, 1250/2500 Blinds 250 Ante (9 handed) - PokerStars Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com

                              SB (t52834)
                              BB (t32390)
                              UTG (t36490)
                              UTG+1 (t155035)
                              MP1 (t112217)
                              MP2 (t18789)
                              MP3 (t35510)
                              CO (t209707)
                              Hero (Button) (t79282)

                              Hero's M: 13.21

                              Preflop: Hero is Button with Js, Jh
                              1 fold, UTG+1 bets t5625, 4 folds, Hero calls t5625, 2 folds

                              Flop: (t17250) 8d, 4d, Kc (2 players)
                              UTG+1 bets t8950, Hero calls t8950

                              Turn: (t35150) 9c (2 players)
                              UTG+1 bets t16250, Hero calls t16250

                              River: (t67650) 5s (2 players)
                              UTG+1 bets t67650


                              What the bloomin heck do I do here?
                              We shove pre flop.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by SICKPUPPY View Post
                                We shove pre flop.
                                What about if we're a scared little girl who wants to cash in her first Sunday Million?

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by KK82 View Post
                                  What about if we're a scared little girl who wants to cash in her first Sunday Million?
                                  We fold the flop unless we hit a jack horrible and all as that is.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Fold all day long now unless you have a very specific read.

                                    Would raise pre and raise flop. If he comes back at you its an easy fold.
                                    His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      If calling the turn, call the river. It's decision time there.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        And turn is a fold, you're only beatign a bluff

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Yeah, I folded like the vagina that I am once again.

                                          Just rivered an Ace in a race though. Still in!

                                          252/589

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Hand 1: Fold pre, b/f turn. Pre is the closer of the two. Its a very straightforward hand.

                                            Hand 2: Seems like you clicked the wrong button pre
                                            Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Standard open. As played b/f turn. The Ace connects pretty hard with our flop cbetting range and not as much with villains flop calling range thus making it a terrible card to bluff-raise, so when he does he's nutted quite often.

                                              Having checked I'd just fold to the shove, wp
                                              Last edited by Winning!; 28-11-11, 01:14.
                                              "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Bah. Finished somewhere in the 400s. Shoved 15bbs with 77 into AK x 2. A & K on the flop. Can never hold against two players AKs.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Are u ****2525 ?

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Nope.. KevinK82

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by KK82 View Post
                                                      Nope.. KevinK82
                                                      4 Irish still in Niall338,ehdontthinkso,imidg2 and kumozing all 100k+

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Hand 1 - People saying fold pre, why?

                                                        Hand 2 - Flat seems fine.. shoving is mental.. 3betting just takes the pot alot of the time unless we have a dynamic with the opener and feel he's gonna spaz out preflop.. he can be opening wide off that stack but rarely 4betting wide [given the positions], so we wanna keep him in surely.
                                                        Also the blinds stacks are sexy for squeezing over our flat aswel.
                                                        I think for me it goes flat >> 3bet call >> shove >> 3bet fold.

                                                        On flop i call once anyway, give up if he fires turn without reads.

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Laois Hammer View Post
                                                          Hand 1 - People saying fold pre, why?
                                                          I'm a nit.

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            i think you played the second hand perfectly, but i would fold the turn. i don't agree at all with the idea that if you call the turn you have to call the river, we shouldn't be worrying about balance vs an unknown in the million, and the number of people who are capable of firing two barrels in this spot is much great than the number who are capable of firing three.

                                                            first hand the turn is an easy bet fold. given that you checked here you probably need to work a lot more bet/folding into your game in general.

                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by Laois Hammer View Post
                                                              Hand 1 - People saying fold pre, why?

                                                              Hand 2 - Flat seems fine.. shoving is mental.. 3betting just takes the pot alot of the time unless we have a dynamic with the opener and feel he's gonna spaz out preflop.. he can be opening wide off that stack but rarely 4betting wide [given the positions], so we wanna keep him in surely.
                                                              Also the blinds stacks are sexy for squeezing over our flat aswel.
                                                              I think for me it goes flat >> 3bet call >> shove >> 3bet fold.

                                                              On flop i call once anyway, give up if he fires turn without reads.
                                                              Without odd dynamics, 3betting is clearly better than flatting.

                                                              I think on a strong table the A9s ep is an easy fold. Cos its the mills its prob fine.
                                                              Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                              Comment


                                                                #32
                                                                Umm is this the nit thread?
                                                                Huh, Math my dear boy is nothing more than the lesbian sister of biology.

                                                                My Poker Blog http://jason-tompkins.blogspot.com
                                                                My twitter http://twitter.com/#!/blaaaaaah666

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  B/fold first hand.
                                                                  And 3-bet second hand with a view to getting it in. As played fold river. He has AK, AA type hands to often IMO. WP

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
                                                                    Without odd dynamics, 3betting is clearly better than flatting.
                                                                    I know 3betting to get it in is standard, but do you not think -v- some opponents who are just gonna fold to the 3bet so much that we can play it a bit riskier for more value sometimes, especially with stacks like this in the blinds?

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by Laois Hammer View Post
                                                                      I know 3betting to get it in is standard, but do you not think -v- some opponents who are just gonna fold to the 3bet so much that we can play it a bit riskier for more value sometimes, especially with stacks like this in the blinds?
                                                                      Yes. We have no reads in this hand though.
                                                                      Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Laois Hammer View Post
                                                                        I know 3betting to get it in is standard, but do you not think -v- some opponents who are just gonna fold to the 3bet so much that we can play it a bit riskier for more value sometimes, especially with stacks like this in the blinds?
                                                                        Would agree with aa or kk (having no villan reads) with JJ you just leave yourself too open to making tough decisions post flop. Happy flatting JJ against an agro serial raiser in position.
                                                                        His rival it seems, had broken his dreams,By stealing the girl of his fancy.Her name was Magill, and she called herself Lil,But everyone knew her as Nancy.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by robin View Post
                                                                          i think you played the second hand perfectly, but i would fold the turn. i don't agree at all with the idea that if you call the turn you have to call the river, we shouldn't be worrying about balance vs an unknown in the million, and the number of people who are capable of firing two barrels in this spot is much great than the number who are capable of firing three.
                                                                          Not sure why a big stack would build a pot to shove the river approaching a bubble and not fire the 3rd barrel.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            #38
                                                                            I have been thinking a bit about hand 1 and Id like to put some thoughts out there as best I can. First of all I think we can all agree that it is standard up until the turn - I think this is an open in a soft field and a standard cbet etc

                                                                            Ok now considering the Ace hits on the turn a standard hero line should be to lead 100% of our range mainly because as Winning suggests it hits a massive part of our range and should hit very little of the villains range that he calls a flop bet with. i.e. Im leading with all air and made hands there as well as KK, QQ etc etc

                                                                            My arguement is from a villains perspective (and considering stack sizes) would it be +EV to shove that turn with nearly 100% of his range given how hard it is for hero to find a call there? Im not just saying that from a results orientated point of view but the way I look at it is Hero can only call with 2 pair+ and AK (AQ?).

                                                                            The hand in question may be a poor example but its a spot Iv thought of now and again where hero is nearly being forced to fold unless he is at the very top of his range.

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                                              I have been thinking a bit about hand 1 and Id like to put some thoughts out there as best I can. First of all I think we can all agree that it is standard up until the turn - I think this is an open in a soft field and a standard cbet etc
                                                                              I don't think we can agree on that at all.
                                                                              Posters are generally split on fold or open pre.
                                                                              With 7 players to act behind, I don't like opening a weakish ace.

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                #40
                                                                                Hand one: I think we can bet smaller on the flop like 1100-1200 and then something like 1800-1900 on the turn and then if he shoves we can fold...

                                                                                Hand two: I'd 3 bet to 8750-8950 and if he clicks it back at us we can raise again so depending on villans 4 bet we should be 5 betting somewhere between 16-19k and if he shoves I'm more than happy to fold at that point. we also only cost ourselves 16-19k to have a very good idea of where we are as opposed to calling off 30,825k on the turn scratching our head
                                                                                If it wasn't for variance i'd lose em all.

                                                                                http://twitter.com/#!/NiallSmythers

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by TheWitchDoctor View Post
                                                                                  Hand two: I'd 3 bet to 8750-8950 and if he clicks it back at us we can raise again so depending on villans 4 bet we should be 5 betting somewhere between 16-19k and if he shoves I'm more than happy to fold at that point. we also only cost ourselves 16-19k to have a very good idea of where we are as opposed to calling off 30,825k on the turn scratching our head
                                                                                  This is ludicrous stuff, there's no logic in folding pre for 16 - 19k (very tough to keep the pot that small btw) as opposed to seeing flop and turn in position for 14k.

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by danutpeddler View Post
                                                                                    This is ludicrous stuff, there's no logic in folding pre for 16 - 19k (very tough to keep the pot that small btw) as opposed to seeing flop and turn in position for 14k.
                                                                                    He is UTG +1 near the bubble so he either has a fairly strong hand or stealing with some kind of suited connected type hand to balance his range so I'm 3 betting here always, so he will obviously fold call or raise.
                                                                                    So if he 4 bets cause we are just guessing at this stage I'd advise a small 5 bet especially if you are not comfortable playing flops this late in a tournament and if he does 6 bet shove at this stage his range is pretty polarized and I think its an easy fold. Like of course you could always call the 4 bet in position but again if your not sure what to do on the flop and are looking to cash I prefer a 5 bet fold.

                                                                                    I also think the pot could easily be between 16-19 all depends on villans 4 bet but I do like clicking it back a lot so maybe thats just me..
                                                                                    If it wasn't for variance i'd lose em all.

                                                                                    http://twitter.com/#!/NiallSmythers

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by TheWitchDoctor View Post
                                                                                      He is UTG +1 near the bubble so he either has a fairly strong hand or stealing with some kind of suited connected type hand to balance his range so I'm 3 betting here always, so he will obviously fold call or raise.
                                                                                      So if he 4 bets cause we are just guessing at this stage I'd advise a small 5 bet especially if you are not comfortable playing flops this late in a tournament and if he does 6 bet shove at this stage his range is pretty polarized and I think its an easy fold. Like of course you could always call the 4 bet in position but again if your not sure what to do on the flop and are looking to cash I prefer a 5 bet fold.

                                                                                      I also think the pot could easily be between 16-19 all depends on villans 4 bet but I do like clicking it back a lot so maybe thats just me..
                                                                                      Near the bubble is no time to start "seeing where you are?"
                                                                                      You'll find out pretty quickly that you are in fact, on the bubble!

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by danutpeddler View Post
                                                                                        Near the bubble is no time to start "seeing where you are?"
                                                                                        You'll find out pretty quickly that you are in fact, on the bubble!
                                                                                        So what exactly do you prefer doing just calling pre?
                                                                                        I don't understand what you saying in the 2nd sentence??
                                                                                        If it wasn't for variance i'd lose em all.

                                                                                        http://twitter.com/#!/NiallSmythers

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by TheWitchDoctor View Post
                                                                                          Hand one: I think we can bet smaller on the flop like 1100-1200 and then something like 1800-1900 on the turn and then if he shoves we can fold...

                                                                                          Hand two: I'd 3 bet to 8750-8950 and if he clicks it back at us we can raise again so depending on villans 4 bet we should be 5 betting somewhere between 16-19k and if he shoves I'm more than happy to fold at that point. we also only cost ourselves 16-19k to have a very good idea of where we are as opposed to calling off 30,825k on the turn scratching our head
                                                                                          Hand two. 5 bet folding jj with 32 bb is awful. 3 bet call villains ship.
                                                                                          https://twitter.com/#!/PadraigONeill89

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by TheWitchDoctor View Post
                                                                                            So what exactly do you prefer doing just calling pre?
                                                                                            I don't understand what you saying in the 2nd sentence??
                                                                                            What I mean is that if you are betting for info (which is never good) the bubble is the worst place to do it cause you'll be exploited beyond belief.


                                                                                            As played i prob 3 bet call with 30ish bigs, don't mind the call by hero, prob fold turn with that line.

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by TheWitchDoctor View Post
                                                                                              Hand two: I'd 3 bet to 8750-8950 and if he clicks it back at us we can raise again so depending on villans 4 bet we should be 5 betting somewhere between 16-19k and if he shoves I'm more than happy to fold at that point. we also only cost ourselves 16-19k to have a very good idea of where we are as opposed to calling off 30,825k on the turn scratching our head
                                                                                              If you are planning on folding to a shove then 5 betting is bad. Once we 5bet its has to go in.

                                                                                              I agree we always 3 bet. But your reasoning is basically 5bet/fold so we don't have to play a flop.
                                                                                              There shouldn't be much difference between his 4bet and 6bet shove range this shallow. Even with some air we fold out. Holding on to the 10k and folding to the 4bet is far better than 5 bet shove.
                                                                                              Originally posted by TheWitchDoctor View Post
                                                                                              So what exactly do you prefer doing just calling pre?
                                                                                              I don't understand what you saying in the 2nd sentence??
                                                                                              With the second sentence (I think) he means that 5betting "to have a very good idea of where we are" is especially bad on the bubble. It's just burning equity.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Ok maybe I have this wrong but OP wanted his first cash in the sunday millions and besides just open folding the jacks, I thought 5 bet small/folding gave him the best chance to win the pot while minamilizing chip loss..
                                                                                                If it wasn't for variance i'd lose em all.

                                                                                                http://twitter.com/#!/NiallSmythers

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  I get that but he doesn't fold enough to the small 5bet in order to make it profitable IMO.
                                                                                                  If you think we beat his shove range then get it in. If not then we can still 3bet/call profitably.

                                                                                                  Personally, JJ beats his shove range this shallow

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Why take the stairs..
                                                                                                    "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      #51
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                                                                      My arguement is from a villains perspective (and considering stack sizes) would it be +EV to shove that turn with nearly 100% of his range given how hard it is for hero to find a call there? Im not just saying that from a results orientated point of view but the way I look at it is Hero can only call with 2 pair+ and AK (AQ?).

                                                                                                      The hand in question may be a poor example but its a spot Iv thought of now and again where hero is nearly being forced to fold unless he is at the very top of his range.
                                                                                                      you're on the right track with this, since regardless of whether villain is the type to fire again with air when an A hits or the type to keep balanced by firing thinnish for value (Ax,QQ+) he will likely be bet/folding this turn a lot.

                                                                                                      however, you'd want to be sure that he isn't a station of course, and this spot shouldn't come up very often since you don't want to be flatting very often vs an EP open by a reg, but if you get to this turn with 88 or something as villain i like the idea of a shove over a second barrel.

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