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    SnG hand 40bb shove pre

    What we do here haven't seen villan play a hand so far, ships over 40bb in we have 1010 call? fold?

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 4.4 Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    SB (t530)
    BB (t2630)
    UTG (t1900)
    UTG+1 (t1310)
    MP1 (t1020)
    MP2 (t3050)
    MP3 (t5385)
    Hero (CO) (t1870)
    Button (t645)

    Hero's M: 41.56

    Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, 10
    1 fold, UTG+1 bets t1310 (All-In), 3 folds, Hero ???, 3 folds
    ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
    I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

    #2
    I just fold. Its too early in the tournament to bother with this.

    Even if he's a dullard, and has shoved QJo, there's no point in getting involved.

    Comment


      #3
      Yea, you're racing/behind the majority of the time

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by bohsman View Post
        Yea, you're racing/behind the majority of the time
        +1 its a fold

        Comment


          #5
          I never really post answers to these threads as Im still learning myself, but seeing as im learning more stuff everyday I think im aloud now

          Fold straight away anyway. In these tournies people are pushing with monsters and you know they are monsters because its the start of a tournament when the blinds are low. Its pretty hard to bring yourself to pressing fold when you see two 10s on front of ya. But your probably either beat pre-flop or in a race with two overcards. A-Q/A-K etc.
          Last edited by A_CitizenErased; 06-02-11, 01:02.

          Comment


            #6
            Fold, no need to get involved this early

            Also i see that kind of thing happen now where the villain has big pairs alot of the time.
            Nobody has reads at that stage and people think he's a maniac and call lighter than usual

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Mahony92 View Post
              In these tournies people are pushing with monsters
              Don't think thats true really, i mean i see this shit with a range like 22-99 A10-Ak ect
              I think its closer than ppl think
              ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
              I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                Don't think thats true really, i mean i see this shit with a range like 22-99 A10-Ak ect
                I think its closer than ppl think
                its not

                Comment


                  #9
                  i call

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Emmet View Post
                    its not
                    explain y u think so?

                    im really interested in this sort spot cause happens alot what range u think he does this with?
                    ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                    I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Its 22-99 a small amount of the time, TT-AA and any 2 picture cards a lot of the time.

                      I know plenty that'll push AA first hand in a SNG hoping people will take your line of thinking.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                        explain y u think so?

                        im really interested in this sort spot cause happens alot what range u think he does this with?
                        What do you think makes it close?

                        Any two picture cards is a flip? You would hope to be able to outplay almost all of your opponents postflop, and the hand is early in the tournament.

                        Why take a maybe +0.000001 EV chance now when we can preserve our chips, and play poker instead of flipping coins for money?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                          Don't think thats true really, i mean i see this shit with a range like 22-99 A10-Ak ect
                          I think its closer than ppl think
                          Take what you will, But Its usually not close at all' and the reason I know this is it has happened to me a lot of the time and Emmet and some other lads on here helped me erase it from my game. If a donk or a fella who knows hes up against donks sees AA in the first hand, Theres a huge chance he will shove because he expects callers in tournies and sngs like this. When buy-in is very low, people shove monsters when blinds are 10/20 for an easy double up because they usually get called.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Calling.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by bohsman View Post
                              Its 22-99 a small amount of the time, TT-AA and any 2 picture cards a lot of the time.

                              I know plenty that'll push AA first hand in a SNG hoping people will take your line of thinking.
                              +1 - I think it is a fold at this stage of the tournament with no notes on the opponent.


                              Comment


                                #16
                                Fold. He is a spaz and you will get them later.
                                It is close and I\'m calling with jacks.
                                The hand he shows up most often is AK.
                                Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Havent really posted in the theory section gets me in trouble generally but I agree with bubbleking its pretty much a call because you have no notes and hes clearly not a reg its a completely standard call i think.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Always a fold IMO.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      JJ+ AK+ everything else im folding.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        this is the difference between a good sng player and a bad sng player

                                        its a clear fold to any utg push and some mp pushes, unless you have clear notes on the guy saying otherwise.
                                        later in the game its a different story



                                        "Remember the time he ate my goldfish? And you lied and said I never had goldfish. Then why did I have the bowl, Bart? Why did I have the bowl?"

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Definite fold. If I get AA or KK early in a MTT or SNG ata low level I will shove all in expecting to get called by alsorts of muck. Usually you get atleast once loose call.
                                          Question is always - Do I mind flipping off my stack if he has AK,AJ etc and do I really think anyone would open shove with a worse pair. Anwer to the first should be no I hope and the answer to the second is probably not as there are no blinds to steal. Sure you get some donks who will put it in with worse but you should be able to get the chips off them easily later in the game if you dont get busted here.
                                          Nonsense spot this early that always comes up on the lower levels but withou the info that your oponent has just taken a massive line your are usually behind, sometimes a flip and only very rarely ahead.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            I just fold this....you might be ahead but I think its unlikely. Have seen people do this with AA trying to catch someone with a lower pair or AK.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by leroydalegend View Post
                                              I just fold this....you might be ahead but I think its unlikely. Have seen people do this with AA trying to catch someone with a lower pair or AK.
                                              forget my long confusing post above - This is what I meant

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                TT is super fast fold Aks too
                                                more qiestionable is what do we do with QQ

                                                the TT call is burning money
                                                its all ICM if you call and win you gain some % eq in the sng but you also give % eq to the other players and overall you need to be seriously ahead to make a 40BB call with TT in sng
                                                if the shover had some stats like 56/38 and shoved more than once maybe then you could look at a call but I would guess you need 60% eq to be worth the call and I doubt you have it agaisnt UTG mad shove range
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                                                www.bitireland.ie

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Stoko View Post
                                                  TT is super fast fold Aks too
                                                  more qiestionable is what do we do with QQ

                                                  the TT call is burning money
                                                  its all ICM if you call and win you gain some % eq in the sng but you also give % eq to the other players and overall you need to be seriously ahead to make a 40BB call with TT in sng
                                                  if the shover had some stats like 56/38 and shoved more than once maybe then you could look at a call but I would guess you need 60% eq to be worth the call and I doubt you have it agaisnt UTG mad shove range
                                                  QQ is a puke call and I reckon JJ is a fold. I think that's what the maths say anyone. I hate giving up edges.
                                                  Last edited by peterswellman; 07-02-11, 14:58.

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by peterswellman View Post
                                                    QQ is a puke call
                                                    Your crazy
                                                    ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                                                    I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                                                      Your crazy
                                                      Not really.

                                                      Consider two situations.
                                                      First, we have QQ in the very first hand of a tournament 150bb stacks, you know everyone else in the tournament hasn't a clue about poker, and that you will easily be able to outplay them on all streets at all stages.

                                                      You are on the button and UTG shoves, UTG+1 calls and MP calls. What do you do?

                                                      Secondly
                                                      We are late in another tournament, average stack is 12 bbs and bubble is fast approaching. You get QQ on the button and UTG playing 9bbs shoves, UTG+1 playing 8 bb calls and MP playing 22 bbs reshoves.

                                                      What do you do?

                                                      Can you see how insanely different these situations are?

                                                      The timing of opening of shove/calling ranges is where most people get things very very wrong in tournament poker.

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                                                        Your crazy
                                                        what range do you put the shover on??
                                                        Buy and Sell bitcoin in Ireland with Bitireland Broker Ltd.
                                                        www.bitireland.ie

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Stoko View Post
                                                          what range do you put the shover on??
                                                          I dont see how you cant give him AA or KK most of the time with AK suited most of the rest. I would prob fold QQ to be honest but not be happy about it.

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            if UTG+1 is shoving KK+ AQs+ ATs A5s-A3s AKo in temrs of ICM we can only call with KK+

                                                            Buy and Sell bitcoin in Ireland with Bitireland Broker Ltd.
                                                            www.bitireland.ie

                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                                                              Your crazy
                                                              It's not a case of I've two queens ship the loots. It's about putting people on ranges and making profitable long term calls.

                                                              Comment


                                                                #32
                                                                Surely the crazy bit is that people call here.

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  Genuine LOLs ITT

                                                                  Comment


                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                                    Genuine LOLs ITT
                                                                    Keep calling here with 10 10 and losing money because that's exactly what it is. Math proves if your examining ICM etc.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by peterswellman View Post
                                                                      Keep calling here with 10 10 and losing money because that's exactly what it is. Math proves if your examining ICM etc.
                                                                      math eh? I like math (this is very rough so maybe a couple of pips out cant do math in my head

                                                                      say we give UTG+1 a realistic pushing range of 22+ and any over cards that consist of AJ+ AJs+. Note in this example Im not including the other TT or any A2s+ hands etc. Mainly because it un-necessarily strentgthens my point but it is also far more likely that a villain pushes a PP over A5s etc

                                                                      Anyway

                                                                      Pairs

                                                                      8 pairs we beat - 48 combos - 80%

                                                                      3 pairs that beat us - 18 combos - 20%

                                                                      Total EV on all pair hands = 65% roughly

                                                                      Overcards
                                                                      including suits it averages out that we are 56% over 48 combos

                                                                      Total

                                                                      64 combos = 65%
                                                                      48 combos = 56%

                                                                      that rounds up to around 58-59% I think

                                                                      So basucally you are telling me you are giving up a MINIMUM of 8-9% EV on the call

                                                                      with all due respect folders GTFO

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                                        So basucally you are telling me you are giving up a MINIMUM of 8-9% EV on the call

                                                                        with all due respect folders GTFO
                                                                        The rest isn't fully right either, but even if this is true, its probably still a fold... You are worried about winning the pot, not thinking about chips, cEV or position in the tournament as it is. In a cash game, completely different, as we essentially make all decisions into infinity (an assumption for cash games), but doesn't hold here.

                                                                        The game isn't as black and white as the calculations above.

                                                                        Comment


                                                                          #37
                                                                          Originally posted by Caf View Post
                                                                          Surely the crazy bit is that people call here.
                                                                          Where? What are u refer to the QQ or TT?
                                                                          ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                                                                          I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                                            math eh? I like math (this is very rough so maybe a couple of pips out cant do math in my head

                                                                            say we give UTG+1 a realistic pushing range of 22+ and any over cards that consist of AJ+ AJs+. Note in this example Im not including the other TT or any A2s+ hands etc. Mainly because it un-necessarily strentgthens my point but it is also far more likely that a villain pushes a PP over A5s etc

                                                                            Anyway

                                                                            Pairs

                                                                            8 pairs we beat - 48 combos - 80%

                                                                            3 pairs that beat us - 18 combos - 20%

                                                                            Total EV on all pair hands = 65% roughly

                                                                            Overcards
                                                                            including suits it averages out that we are 56% over 48 combos

                                                                            Total

                                                                            64 combos = 65%
                                                                            48 combos = 56%

                                                                            that rounds up to around 58-59% I think

                                                                            So basucally you are telling me you are giving up a MINIMUM of 8-9% EV on the call

                                                                            with all due respect folders GTFO
                                                                            thats not $Ev (ICM) calculation!! thats pure cEV
                                                                            you need SNGWiz or a big massive spreadsheet to calculate $Ev among 9 players. I am at work and dont have SNGWiz here to run the simulation but in 9man sng its PROVEN FOLD!!! Its not even needed to go re calc something thta has been cacled so many times!!! I am surprised ppl even discuss a call here!!!
                                                                            Buy and Sell bitcoin in Ireland with Bitireland Broker Ltd.
                                                                            www.bitireland.ie

                                                                            Comment


                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by Stoko View Post
                                                                              thats not $Ev (ICM) calculation!! thats pure cEV
                                                                              you need SNGWiz or a big massive spreadsheet to calculate $Ev among 9 players. I am at work and dont have SNGWiz here to run the simulation but in 9man sng its PROVEN FOLD!!! Its not even needed to go re calc something thta has been cacled so many times!!! I am surprised ppl even discuss a call here!!!
                                                                              At a full table i.e. 6 off the bubble and the blinds the way they are I dont see the benfit of using ICM over pure EV

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                                                say we give UTG+1 a realistic pushing range of 22+ and any over cards that consist of AJ+ AJs+.
                                                                                Biggest problem with your maths here is that this isn't the realistic shoving range. In these spots you are almost always up against a monster. Only othere alternative is someone fucked outta there mind and without going a deeper to get that read you have to take it as someone with a monster looking to get it in against someone who uses your thought process. If they have made aplay to steal here then let them have it as they will be busted soon but this early in a SnG if you are happy to flip for your stack then you are playing the game wrong. Will be much better spots where you have control of the pot to move on later.

                                                                                Comment


                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by Emmet View Post
                                                                                  Not really.

                                                                                  Consider two situations.
                                                                                  First, we have QQ in the very first hand of a tournament 150bb stacks, you know everyone else in the tournament hasn't a clue about poker, and that you will easily be able to outplay them on all streets at all stages.

                                                                                  You are on the button and UTG shoves, UTG+1 calls and MP calls. What do you do?

                                                                                  Secondly
                                                                                  We are late in another tournament, average stack is 12 bbs and bubble is fast approaching. You get QQ on the button and UTG playing 9bbs shoves, UTG+1 playing 8 bb calls and MP playing 22 bbs reshoves.

                                                                                  What do you do?

                                                                                  Can you see how insanely different these situations are?

                                                                                  The timing of opening of shove/calling ranges is where most people get things very very wrong in tournament poker.
                                                                                  First off these two situations have noting to do with my statement of ''Your Crazy''

                                                                                  I'm referring to someone open Jamming 40 odd BB's in a 180man from UTG+1 and we are in the cutoff with QQ. I said its crazy to fold here which i think it is. IMO

                                                                                  And to the questions above No.1 ''you know everyone else in the tournament hasn't a clue about poker'' is that ever the case. And fold

                                                                                  No.2 by this stage of tournament id like think id have reads on all players and what there ranges are in certain spots, are they regs ect but more likely fold.

                                                                                  Btw this thread is Tilting me Cheers 4 the replies doe
                                                                                  ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                                                                                  I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    fwiw
                                                                                    Q1 snap fold
                                                                                    Q2 snap call

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by Gilligan-Black View Post
                                                                                      Biggest problem with your maths here is that this isn't the realistic shoving range. In these spots you are almost always up against a monster. Only othere alternative is someone fucked outta there mind and without going a deeper to get that read you have to take it as someone with a monster looking to get it in against someone who uses your thought process. If they have made aplay to steal here then let them have it as they will be busted soon but this early in a SnG if you are happy to flip for your stack then you are playing the game wrong. Will be much better spots where you have control of the pot to move on later.
                                                                                      And your getting this logic from where? U dnt know for certain what ppl's ranges are from one spot to the other thats y its called a range, u can't just say they have a monster cause he shipped 40bb in from ep.
                                                                                      ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                                                                                      I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Ah yeah we are in bad shape V the range of a guy who open ships 40 plus bigs when we have the QQ and AKs. WTF. Genuine one of the strangest arguments I have seen on here.
                                                                                        Waiting to be corrected by some LUDICRIOUS PROPOSTOUROUS MATHS. Fook off please.

                                                                                        I completly agree with BubbleKings point below.

                                                                                        To those who are open shipping 100bb in with the AA and KK.....wp.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                                                                                          Where? What are u refer to the QQ or TT?
                                                                                          10,10 obv, I posted in your log, in case you missed it, but hadn't seen this thread. It's much better strategy to try to win pots without showdown. Calling off with 1010 with these stacks is madness, ie. crazy, and I was referring to all the crazy talk going on. As said in your log, it's just gambling getting it in here.

                                                                                          I actually hate having to call 1010 with shallower stacks if so many pots can be won pf without having to put your tourney/stt life on the line, but alas if the stacks were more shallow or deeper in the game it would be a call.

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                                                                                            And your getting this logic from where? U dnt know for certain what ppl's ranges are from one spot to the other thats y its called a range, u can't just say they have a monster cause he shipped 40bb in from ep.
                                                                                            Vs any shoving range, you only dominate PPs lower than 9s, and then 78s,89s. You are flipping vs loads of it, and crushed by some of it.

                                                                                            You don't need to say he has a monster or not, all you need to realise is that calling there is a ridiculously high variance spot that we can avoid very easily by dumping our cards, and catching him at it again.

                                                                                            This isn't a cash game, we can't reload, we have to build chips on our terms as much as possible.

                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by jbravado View Post
                                                                                              Ah yeah we are in bad shape V the range of a guy who open ships 40 plus bigs when we have the QQ and AKs. WTF. Genuine one of the strangest arguments I have seen on here.
                                                                                              Waiting to be corrected by some LUDICRIOUS PROPOSTOUROUS MATHS. Fook off please.

                                                                                              I completly agree with BubbleKings point below.

                                                                                              To those who are open shipping 100bb in with the AA and KK.....wp.
                                                                                              This what i was tryin 2 say. N1 Sam i taught i was going mad
                                                                                              ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                                                                                              I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Its much more the timing of the bet that puts me on to the fact that he will have something big. Early doors and the first hand he plays. You did ask for opinions and mine is to fold.

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Emmet View Post
                                                                                                  Vs any shoving range, you only dominate PPs lower than 9s, and then 78s,89s. You are flipping vs loads of it, and crushed by some of it.

                                                                                                  You don't need to say he has a monster or not, all you need to realise is that calling there is a ridiculously high variance spot that we can avoid very easily by dumping our cards, and catching him at it again.

                                                                                                  This isn't a cash game, we can't reload, we have to build chips on our terms as much as possible.
                                                                                                  I think this thread is all over the shop now. Im not talking about the TT anymore Emmet I was referring to QQ in the same spot. I think u might be tlking about the TT in this post above
                                                                                                  ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                                                                                                  I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Bubbleking View Post
                                                                                                    math eh? I like math (this is very rough so maybe a couple of pips out cant do math in my head

                                                                                                    say we give UTG+1 a realistic pushing range of 22+ and any over cards that consist of AJ+ AJs+. Note in this example Im not including the other TT or any A2s+ hands etc. Mainly because it un-necessarily strentgthens my point but it is also far more likely that a villain pushes a PP over A5s etc

                                                                                                    Anyway

                                                                                                    Pairs

                                                                                                    8 pairs we beat - 48 combos - 80%

                                                                                                    3 pairs that beat us - 18 combos - 20%

                                                                                                    Total EV on all pair hands = 65% roughly

                                                                                                    Overcards
                                                                                                    including suits it averages out that we are 56% over 48 combos

                                                                                                    Total

                                                                                                    64 combos = 65%
                                                                                                    48 combos = 56%

                                                                                                    that rounds up to around 58-59% I think

                                                                                                    So basucally you are telling me you are giving up a MINIMUM of 8-9% EV on the call

                                                                                                    with all due respect folders GTFO
                                                                                                    Does what your saying apply regardless of stack sizes, Avg M, etc? If it was the first hand of a normal mtt with 150bb SS and someone open shoves does the same logic stand that you would call because of 58-59%? Or a 300bb mtt? Genuine question in case it sounds like I'm taking the piss. I'm pretty confused that anyone would call tbh.

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      #51
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Gilligan-Black View Post
                                                                                                      Its much more the timing of the bet that puts me on to the fact that he will have something big. Early doors and the first hand he plays. You did ask for opinions and mine is to fold.
                                                                                                      Im not saying don't give your opinion im just arguing with it
                                                                                                      ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
                                                                                                      I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                        #52
                                                                                                        Originally posted by Maloney View Post
                                                                                                        I'm referring to someone open Jamming 40 odd BB's in a 180man from UTG+1 and we are in the cutoff with QQ. I said its crazy to fold here which i think it is. IMO
                                                                                                        180 man change evrything!!!!!
                                                                                                        I thought it was 9man sng .. sorry!
                                                                                                        Buy and Sell bitcoin in Ireland with Bitireland Broker Ltd.
                                                                                                        www.bitireland.ie

                                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                                          #53
                                                                                                          I'm only writing back to this because Ste's my mate, this thread just sums up why I f***ing hate ipb. Go ahead tell me to gtfo, and I'll go actually learn something at 2+2.

                                                                                                          I would sharkscope him, if he is a big loser I will call, because his range will be more like what bubbleking stated, and you can't pass vs that. If he is a winner, I will snap fold. Will also fold AK here, even with zee blockers because he probably is never shoving worse if he is a winner. Maybe AQs but I don't know.

                                                                                                          To those wanting to fold QQ, enjoy the micros, you're never leaving. Even the biggest retards in the world (ie people wanting to fold QQ here) usually try and get some value from AA,KK.
                                                                                                          Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake!

                                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                                            #54
                                                                                                            I don't think I saw anyone folding QQ. I'm puke calling but still calling because at this stage of a game I hate stacking someone for a huge pot without the nuts because I believe I'm less likely to make a mistake with ranges later on than alot of the field.

                                                                                                            Comment


                                                                                                              #55
                                                                                                              Originally posted by easywithaces View Post
                                                                                                              I'm only writing back to this because Ste's my mate, this thread just sums up why I f***ing hate ipb. Go ahead tell me to gtfo, and I'll go actually learn something at 2+2.

                                                                                                              I would sharkscope him, if he is a big loser I will call, because his range will be more like what bubbleking stated, and you can't pass vs that. If he is a winner, I will snap fold. Will also fold AK here, even with zee blockers because he probably is never shoving worse if he is a winner. Maybe AQs but I don't know.

                                                                                                              To those wanting to fold QQ, enjoy the micros, you're never leaving. Even the biggest retards in the world (ie people wanting to fold QQ here) usually try and get some value from AA,KK.
                                                                                                              Super attitude. Why does the fact that Ste is your mate make you want to reply any more or any less? And this thread sums up why you hate IPB? What, because people have different opinions on what to do in the hand, or if we had QQ in the same spot. There's zero out of line with anyones posts in the thread.

                                                                                                              You're calling people that want to fold QQ "the biggest retards in the world" and yet you've a problem with the way the other side of the arguement present their case. Didn't see you telling everyone that you fcking hate them in this thread when people were trying to help you improve your game.

                                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                                #56
                                                                                                                Originally posted by easywithaces View Post
                                                                                                                I'm only writing back to this because Ste's my mate, this thread just sums up why I f***ing hate ipb. Go ahead tell me to gtfo, and I'll go actually learn something at 2+2.

                                                                                                                I would sharkscope him, if he is a big loser I will call, because his range will be more like what bubbleking stated, and you can't pass vs that. If he is a winner, I will snap fold. Will also fold AK here, even with zee blockers because he probably is never shoving worse if he is a winner. Maybe AQs but I don't know.

                                                                                                                To those wanting to fold QQ, enjoy the micros, you're never leaving. Even the biggest retards in the world (ie people wanting to fold QQ here) usually try and get some value from AA,KK.
                                                                                                                If he's your mate could you not have used the telephone instead of coming in with your panties in a twist? You need OPR/sharkscope to realise that this guy is a losing player? He just open shoved 40bb, says enough to me. Basing this decision on stats is terrible in my humble opinion. Nothing there will tell you what a person has shoving 40bb in EP. I won't tell you to gtfo, do what you want to do, free world and all.

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                                                                                                                  #57
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by easywithaces View Post
                                                                                                                  I f***ing hate ipb. Go ahead tell me to gtfo

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                                                                                                                    #58
                                                                                                                    Winning players open shove the top of their range in 180 mans all the time, ask chips1234, see what he says.
                                                                                                                    Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake!

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                                                                                                                      #59
                                                                                                                      It's amazing how people get so outraged when someone disagrees with your opinion.
                                                                                                                      "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

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                                                                                                                        #60
                                                                                                                        It’s all about range application here. We construct our range based on the info we have. The best info comes from:
                                                                                                                        - Hands played against villain. Not much here from according to OP.

                                                                                                                        So that leaves us with:
                                                                                                                        - Position
                                                                                                                        -Experience in this type of tourney at this level.
                                                                                                                        - Sharkscope etc
                                                                                                                        - Other stuff that has a low weighting like timer tells, chat, country, back from disconnect, etc

                                                                                                                        For me the best info comes from the shove with 40 bbs.
                                                                                                                        I would love to hear an argument as to how it is an advanced play and how there is long term value here shoving with AA or KK. More often than not players who shove with 40bbs are very inexperienced, they don’t want to play a flop, usually multi-way, with AK or AQ. The shove has to widen any range we are constructing.

                                                                                                                        ICM calculations have little relevance at this stage in the tourney.
                                                                                                                        Chuckles at the idea of folding QQ here.
                                                                                                                        Last edited by Wombatman; 07-02-11, 19:12.
                                                                                                                        Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

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