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    Live €250 FO Citywest

    We are in level on 50-100 of the Deepstack 250 game in Citywest.

    I am playing 20k as is villain. I am in the BB, villain min raises UTG and I call with 66.

    flop comes out 6 7 8 , check to me I bet 400 he calls.
    Turn comes 4 again check I check behind.
    River is 4 I bet 1500, he shoves for 20K

    What do you do here? comment on hand play?

    Ive a feeling I played this hand particularly badly but curious to see what others think.

    #2
    5 hands beat you. I snap call.

    He could minraise 88s UTG I suppose but you will have to wait for someone better to analyse this hand better.
    Last edited by A_CitizenErased; 08-01-12, 03:03.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by A_CitizenErased View Post
      2 hands beat you. I snap call.


      count again

      Comment


        #4
        Call, if you're beat ul.

        Edit: It's actually a ridiculously easy snap call. As I said if you're beat it's a cooler, no way should you ever be folding that hand in that situation.
        Last edited by dannydiamond; 08-01-12, 03:04.
        We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by japeye View Post
          count again
          I did. I re-edit it.. hes hardly raising 58 suited utg anyway. Fours highly unlikely too

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by A_CitizenErased View Post
            2 hands beat you. I snap call.

            He could minraise 88s UTG I suppose but you will have to wait for someone better to analyse this hand better.
            wrong
            Jayzus, Sheila! I forgot me feckin' trousers

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by healwayscallsmedonkey View Post
              wrong
              Edited that when I managed to get my eyes open.

              Comment


                #8
                4 hands 77, 88, 5s8s and 44 ...... anyway snap call
                airport, lol

                Comment


                  #9
                  call nh wp gg so which did he have 77,88 or 8 5?? 5 3??

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
                    We are in level on 50-100 of the Deepstack 250 game in Citywest.

                    I am playing 20k as is villain. I am in the BB, villain min raises UTG and I call with 66.

                    flop comes out 6 7 8 , check to me I bet 400 he calls.
                    Turn comes 4 again check I check behind.
                    River is 4 I bet 1500, he shoves for 20K

                    What do you do here? comment on hand play?

                    Ive a feeling I played this hand particularly badly but curious to see what others think.
                    CALL, NH, UL
                    Jayzus, Sheila! I forgot me feckin' trousers

                    Comment


                      #11
                      know who villain was? I don't think I ever check back the turn here with fd/sd out there, bet c. 800... As played I'd find it very hard to lay this down edit:surely his check on the turn he cant have a set?? Makes it an easier call IMO
                      Last edited by ghostface; 08-01-12, 03:14.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        5 hands beat u 4 above and 44

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by badugi
                          A_citizen. i think you have to re-re-edit!
                          seriously strange over bet shove on river. I donno could i fold though. tell us did you fold or call? before you tell us what he had
                          ? 5 hands beat him.

                          I originaly posted 2 hands because I cant see anyone minraising under the gun with 44, 35 and 58. 88 and 77 is all I can see beating him here.

                          Although the overshove is obv saying the villian aint great.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by A_CitizenErased View Post
                            ? 5 hands beat him.

                            I originaly posted 2 hands because I cant see anyone minraising under the gun with 44, 35 and 58. 88 and 77 is all I can see beating him here.

                            Although the overshove is obv saying the villian aint great.
                            lol.
                            We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by dannydiamond View Post
                              lol.
                              Very constructive as usual Danny.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Always betting the turn here. Meh, really gross spot on the river. If I have a feel player is anyway competent, i'd give it alot of consideration because him shoving could think we could spaz off with some flush. Still though, it's a totally weird line if he is good. 44 is maybe the only hand I could see him playing like this.

                                If he's bad, he could be actually spazzing off with some flush. I don't really see why he would play on 77, 88 like this tbh. It's a pretty wet flop and unless he totally overvalues top set, it's a really awful line.

                                I call.

                                88

                                Nh.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  this by no means a snap call! realistically, he shouldn't have worse than 66 here! however, his shove is very weird either way , tbh at that stage of the tourney i'd be leaning towards a fold; it smells like a house that wants max value from a flush and we lose to all other full houses...

                                  in terms of the hand, i may pop the flop, definately bet the turn, charging draws/overpairs is much more importan there than deception imo

                                  i'll be interested to hear the result but amazed if villain shows up with worst (unless it's a random bluff by a lunatic-previuos evidence needed though to make the call imo)

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    another thread successfully de-railed come on lads give the op some respect.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
                                      We are in level on 50-100 of the Deepstack 250 game in Citywest.

                                      I am playing 20k as is villain. I am in the BB, villain min raises UTG and I call with 66.

                                      flop comes out 6 7 8 , check to me I bet 400 he calls.
                                      Turn comes 4 again check I check behind.
                                      River is 4 I bet 1500, he shoves for 20K

                                      What do you do here? comment on hand play?

                                      Ive a feeling I played this hand particularly badly but curious to see what others think.
                                      Was going to try to see why Villain would check a set to you on that board but you seemed to have mixed up positions as you should be 1st to act???? Reverso hand perhaps??

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        One thing, you're the BB right? It's just you donk leading on the flop, villain has position on you if he opened from the UTG, right? Same for turn? Just to be clear on the action. Sorry for being pedantic but if you donk out I could maybe see him playing 88/77 in a similar way.....maybe. Still weird and like a poster said above, I wouldn't be snapping off 200BB shoves with anything but the nuts or nutted hands for hands that are against his range.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by A_CitizenErased View Post
                                          Very constructive as usual Danny.
                                          Ok, I'll be a little clearer.

                                          For your own sake admit when you've made a mistake and move on, it's no big deal.
                                          You don't need to defend yourself to the hilt every single time.You made a simple mistake that anyone could make regarding the hands that beat the 44 here, it's no big deal, but you insist upon making this type of tiny incident anywhere on the forum into a big deal.
                                          You're not doing yourself any favours by continuing in this manner.I'm not going to get into a debate with you over this, you can take my advice or leave it.

                                          You're sarky reply is just another example of how you approach others,I'm only trying to help you here ACE so that your time in the forum might take a more positive turn because up until now, you're doing yourself no favours.
                                          We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then is not an act, but a habit.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Ah Peterswellsman 10 secs too late

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by ghostface ste View Post
                                              Ah Wellsman 10 secs too late
                                              Story of my life man.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                If he has a str flush on this board, fuck'em he's a donkey.

                                                If he has 44 (UTG min?) then GG WP UL.

                                                If he has 77 or 88 then, again UTG min? Cooler, UL.

                                                Unless he's competent (known) I snap this off every time. How's he been playing so far? Is he gargled? A lot of guys think a rivered nut flush is the nuts here. Although given the hand is up here I doubt that's what's happened.

                                                Also, unless he puts you on a flopped set why is he shoving the river? Your hand is under repped especially given the turn check, no way he can put you on a set so if he's filled up on the river he would want value and shoving folds out nearly all your range here.

                                                Oh and bet the turn...
                                                Last edited by TM2204; 08-01-12, 03:42. Reason: additional thoughts

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by TM2204 View Post
                                                  If he has a str flush on this board, fuck'em he's a donkey.

                                                  If he has 44 (UTG min?) then GG WP UL.

                                                  If he has 77 or 88 then, again UTG min? Cooler, UL.

                                                  What are you going to do with 44, 77 or 88 utg?

                                                  I wouldnt fold the river anyway thats for sure. Unless I guess it was some very bad tighty who call only have 77 or 88. Even then Id still call I think.

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                                                    #26
                                                    I was in Seat 1 - villain was Dave Lappin.

                                                    Villain had you beat.

                                                    I fold too.

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                                                      #27
                                                      Crazy raise if he is ahead.

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                                                        I was in Seat 1 - villain was Dave Lappin.

                                                        Villain had you beat.

                                                        I fold too.
                                                        Is this how hand played out then? He checked back turn with a set and overshoved river?

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by ghostface ste View Post
                                                          Is this how hand played out then? He checked back turn with a set and overshoved river?
                                                          Quads imo

                                                          Probably doesn't want to bet bottom set on a 4-straight board and fold to a large raise. I like it if he has quads

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by ghostface ste View Post
                                                            Is this how hand played out then? He checked back turn with a set and overshoved river?
                                                            Op was first to act on every street being BB iirc.

                                                            Comment


                                                              #31
                                                              I remember Dave Lappin making a big tilty over shove against that star bar idiot in JPs 250 game. He had air.

                                                              Did you annoy him Joe?
                                                              I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

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                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                Did you annoy him Joe?
                                                                Does a cat drink milk

                                                                Comment


                                                                  #33
                                                                  OP - can you put up the 89o hand aswell - much more fun

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                                                                    #34
                                                                    Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                    I remember Dave Lappin making a big tilty over shove against that star bar idiot in JPs 250 game. He had air.

                                                                    Did you annoy him Joe?
                                                                    No, it was actually a fun table.

                                                                    That shove over Starrbarr he had Royal Flush Draw on the turn vs an obvious weakish hand.

                                                                    Comment


                                                                      #35
                                                                      Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                                                                      No, it was actually a fun table.

                                                                      That shove over Starrbarr he had Royal Flush Draw on the turn vs an obvious weakish hand.
                                                                      Are you sure it was that hand, I thought I remembered him shipping really light in another hand.
                                                                      I hold silver in tit for tat, and I love you for that

                                                                      Comment


                                                                        #36
                                                                        Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                        Are you sure it was that hand, I thought I remembered him shipping really light in another hand.
                                                                        Possibly aswell, dont remember (old age).

                                                                        Lappin also overbet a river vs me yesterday when he had backdoored a flush & thought he'd get paid ( I did pay him off telling him he either had hit the flush or had air as he'd really polarised his hand)

                                                                        Incedently, my money is on 5s3s. If Doke reads this can he find out please!
                                                                        Last edited by Dice75; 08-01-12, 12:50.

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                                                                          #37
                                                                          I was told about this hand but Dave said the flush came on the turn.

                                                                          Comment


                                                                            #38
                                                                            Originally posted by ghostface ste View Post
                                                                            Was going to try to see why Villain would check a set to you on that board but you seemed to have mixed up positions as you should be 1st to act???? Reverso hand perhaps??
                                                                            Originally posted by peterswellman View Post
                                                                            One thing, you're the BB right? It's just you donk leading on the flop, villain has position on you if he opened from the UTG, right? Same for turn? Just to be clear on the action. Sorry for being pedantic but if you donk out I could maybe see him playing 88/77 in a similar way.....maybe. Still weird and like a poster said above, I wouldn't be snapping off 200BB shoves with anything but the nuts or nutted hands for hands that are against his range.
                                                                            Sorry I did get that mixed up I was thinking after I posted it that I was acting first.

                                                                            I bet the pot on the flop, villains hand ranges are wide enough to include loads of straighty hands. I checked the turn for pot control as it was 4678 and I didnt really want to get re-raised I was going to check call.

                                                                            The river bet was incredibly fishy I think, and all hands that beat me are in the villains range, it was just a standard open.


                                                                            Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                                                                            I was in Seat 1 - villain was Dave Lappin.

                                                                            Villain had you beat.

                                                                            I fold too.
                                                                            I think so, he definitely would have shown if I was ahead IMO.
                                                                            Last edited by Goodluck2me; 08-01-12, 13:04.

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                                                                              #39
                                                                              Originally posted by danutpeddler View Post
                                                                              I was told about this hand but Dave said the flush came on the turn.
                                                                              Flush absolutely definitely came on the river -(which obv rules out him having a flush!)

                                                                              Comment


                                                                                #40
                                                                                Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                                                                                No, it was actually a fun table.

                                                                                That shove over Starrbarr he had Royal Flush Draw on the turn vs an obvious weakish hand.
                                                                                He also shoved against the french guy in seat 4 with the made back-door flush.


                                                                                /edit/ in another hand later on/
                                                                                Last edited by Goodluck2me; 08-01-12, 13:04.

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                                                                                  #41
                                                                                  Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
                                                                                  I think so, he definitely would have shown if I was behind IMO.
                                                                                  Did you show? I don't really understand the above line. If you make a big fold, what makes you think that he'll show you a bigger hand and make you fell better about yourself?

                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                    #42
                                                                                    Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
                                                                                    Flush absolutely definitely came on the river -(which obv rules out him having a flush!)
                                                                                    Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
                                                                                    He also shoved against the french guy in seat 4 with the made back-door flush.
                                                                                    This is contradicting a bit too? Joe, you be mad!

                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                      #43
                                                                                      Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                                                      Does a cat drink milk
                                                                                      oi less of that!

                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                        #44
                                                                                        Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                                                        Did you show? I don't really understand the above line. If you make a big fold, what makes you think that he'll show you a bigger hand and make you fell better about yourself?
                                                                                        Meant if I was ahead - will fix my post and delete this one.

                                                                                        Comment


                                                                                          #45
                                                                                          Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                                                          This is contradicting a bit too? Joe, you be mad!
                                                                                          whats contradicting?

                                                                                          Comment


                                                                                            #46
                                                                                            He used the chips well anyhow getting a third in it. fun hand to post
                                                                                            https://twitter.com/#!/PadraigONeill89

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                                                                                              #47
                                                                                              Originally posted by anymorejokes View Post
                                                                                              He used the chips well anyhow getting a third in it. fun hand to post
                                                                                              He is a decent player.

                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                #48
                                                                                                Post the 89 hand.

                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
                                                                                                  Flush absolutely definitely came on the river -(which obv rules out him having a flush!)
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
                                                                                                  He also shoved against the french guy in seat 4 with the made back-door flush.
                                                                                                  Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
                                                                                                  whats contradicting?
                                                                                                  #

                                                                                                  Just wondering how you can rule out the flush in this hand, when he also shoved in a previous hand with a made back door flush? I still think it looks like quads to me btw

                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                    #50
                                                                                                    Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                                                                    #

                                                                                                    Just wondering how you can rule out the flush in this hand, when he also shoved in a previous hand with a made back door flush? I still think it looks like quads to me btw
                                                                                                    BD Flush hand was after this hand.

                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                      #51
                                                                                                      Originally posted by Dice75 View Post
                                                                                                      Post the 89 hand.
                                                                                                      A while later I am on 12K blinds are 150-300 French player makes in 675 in the HJ, I made it 1500 from the SB with 89o; Villain calls.

                                                                                                      Flop is J93r I bet 2200 villain shoves for 14K, thoughts?

                                                                                                      I had shown the 66 hand which I folded earlier on so obviously I will be seen as pretty tight, villains hasnt been to many show down until now. (correct me if I'm wrong Dice)

                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                        #52
                                                                                                        Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                                                                        #

                                                                                                        Just wondering how you can rule out the flush in this hand, when he also shoved in a previous hand with a made back door flush? I still think it looks like quads to me btw
                                                                                                        the reason I can rule out the flush is that the villain made a mistake telling someone else it came on the turn, you would remember which card hit you if you had the flush!

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                                                                                                          #53
                                                                                                          Fold 1st hand if villain is good. He is never expecting you to fold a boat here given how weird his line looks.

                                                                                                          As regards the argument on number of hands beating you its better to think in terms of combos instead of just hands. so 3 combos of 88/77 and 1 combo of 44/85s, 8combos beating you. Consider against that how many combos of straights/flushes villain might overplay in this spot.. not many.

                                                                                                          Hand 2 make it bigger pre. On the flop id prefer c/call over b/c or b/f, villains turn/river line will usually make our decisions much easier.
                                                                                                          "c'est en faisant n'importe quoi qu'on devient n'importe qui"

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                                                                                                            #54
                                                                                                            awesome to see this hand getting some discussion...

                                                                                                            To clarify for everyone...

                                                                                                            I had raised or re-raised almost every hand in the first hour - we were playing 400 blinds deep - so the table dynamic is weird and ATC is my perceived range.

                                                                                                            I don't tilt (in the sense that the line I choose to take in any given hand is never influenced by anger or frustration*). So nothing I did in this hand or any other hand I played was rash or unconsidered.

                                                                                                            The hero in this example (villain from my POV) was judged by me to be a smart poker player, capable of deep thought and thus a worthy adversary in a leveling war.

                                                                                                            The hand was told incorrectly in the original post (but only by a couple of small details):

                                                                                                            Blinds have just gone up to 50/100. Hero playing 20k but I am playing approximately 13,500 (so effective stack is my 135bbs). Villain (LAPPIN) makes it 200 UTG. Hero in the BB calls with 66.

                                                                                                            Flop comes out 6s 7s 8c,
                                                                                                            Hero leads for 400 into 450 pot. I call.
                                                                                                            Turn comes 4h. Pot is 1250.
                                                                                                            Hero checks, I check.
                                                                                                            River comes 4s. Pot is still 1250.
                                                                                                            Hero over-bets 1500, I shove 12,500.
                                                                                                            Hero tank folds.


                                                                                                            The other hands mentioned were:

                                                                                                            I raise to 225 with K4s from the HJ. Button flats. Blinds fold.
                                                                                                            Flop comes A106 (1 spade). Pot is 600.
                                                                                                            I bet 375. Button calls.
                                                                                                            Turn comes 5s. Pot is 1350.
                                                                                                            I check. button checks.
                                                                                                            River comes 8s. I bet 3000. Button calls.
                                                                                                            I show nuts and button mucks.


                                                                                                            The last one here was fun...

                                                                                                            Blinds are 75/150. I raise to 325 UTG. SB calls.
                                                                                                            Flop comes Kh6h2s (two hearts). Pot is 800.
                                                                                                            I bet 525. He calls.
                                                                                                            Turn is an offsuit 3. Pot is 1950.
                                                                                                            He checks. I check.
                                                                                                            River comes 2h.
                                                                                                            He checks. I bet 1700.
                                                                                                            (He looks like he's going to fold when I say "You're good enough to fold 77 here". He looks at me curiously looking for a read. I say "Wow, you're gonna look really silly now when you call with 77 and are beat". He snap calls. I show 89h and he shows 77.


                                                                                                            *However, I will sometimes try to exploit the image of a tilted person if I perceive that to be the villain's impression.
                                                                                                            My website and Blog: dklappin.com

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                                                                                                              #55
                                                                                                              Originally posted by Goodluck2me View Post
                                                                                                              the reason I can rule out the flush is that the villain made a mistake telling someone else it came on the turn, you would remember which card hit you if you had the flush!
                                                                                                              I have a flush here approximately 0.000001% of the time and that one in a million is a mis-click. While I shall not divulge my hand, a flush is literally impossible given my line.

                                                                                                              Also, I told different people versions of the hand where I said I had bluffs and other I told I had nut-type hands. The reason. I don't tell people the truth about what I have ever or at least not reliably but I am interested in people's perspectives of my line when I both have it and don't have it.
                                                                                                              My website and Blog: dklappin.com

                                                                                                              Comment


                                                                                                                #56
                                                                                                                Originally posted by Lazare View Post
                                                                                                                I remember Dave Lappin making a big tilty over shove against that star bar idiot in JPs 250 game. He had air.

                                                                                                                Did you annoy him Joe?
                                                                                                                There was no animosity at the table whatsoever. Quite the opposite in fact. Joe seems like a cool guy.

                                                                                                                I actually made a great read against Eoin in the hand where I over-shoved, basically making the only bet (given the dynamic between us) that would get him off his top pair hand and win me the pot.

                                                                                                                In the other hand, it was he who over-shoved 20k into a 4K pot with ace-rag and I who called with an open-ended royal draw.

                                                                                                                In general, I find the attitude of people strange when discussing over-betting. They think people are either tilting or making terribly sized bets. While of course this could be true, amongst good players the over-bet is a massive piece of your artillery and can be used extremely effectively to polarise your ranges/confuse your opponents, giving you more longterm EV from particular scenarios (protecting your bluffs/getting max value from nuts/balancing your range on certain board textures). It is No-Limit Hold'em after all.
                                                                                                                My website and Blog: dklappin.com

                                                                                                                Comment


                                                                                                                  #57
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by LAPPIN View Post
                                                                                                                  I have a flush here approximately 0.000001% of the time and that one in a million is a mis-click. While I shall not divulge my hand, a flush is literally impossible given my line.

                                                                                                                  Also, I told different people versions of the hand where I said I had bluffs and other I told I had nut-type hands. The reason. I don't tell people the truth about what I have ever or at least not reliably but I am interested in people's perspectives of my line when I both have it and don't have it.
                                                                                                                  can u not have 9s10s here,anyway doesnt really matter what you have folding 66 should never happen if 66 is behind unlucky and showing it face up might aswell drawa target on ur back

                                                                                                                  Comment


                                                                                                                    #58
                                                                                                                    Originally posted by imidg View Post
                                                                                                                    can u not have 9s10s here,anyway doesnt really matter what you have folding 66 should never happen if 66 is behind unlucky and showing it face up might aswell drawa target on ur back
                                                                                                                    In short, no, I cannot ever have 910s ever here.

                                                                                                                    My river bet is 5x the pot so I am profoundly polarised.
                                                                                                                    My website and Blog: dklappin.com

                                                                                                                    Comment


                                                                                                                      #59
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by LAPPIN View Post
                                                                                                                      In short, no, I cannot ever have 910s ever here.

                                                                                                                      My river bet is 5x the pot so I am profoundly polarised.
                                                                                                                      as i said doesnt matter what you have its still a call 100% of the time, unless its the bubble for the november 9, or you have tourettes and keep saying fucking pair of eights

                                                                                                                      Comment


                                                                                                                        #60
                                                                                                                        Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                                                                                                        #

                                                                                                                        Just wondering how you can rule out the flush in this hand, when he also shoved in a previous hand with a made back door flush? I still think it looks like quads to me btw
                                                                                                                        Because the board is paired.
                                                                                                                        Huh, Math my dear boy is nothing more than the lesbian sister of biology.

                                                                                                                        My Poker Blog http://jason-tompkins.blogspot.com
                                                                                                                        My twitter http://twitter.com/#!/blaaaaaah666

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