5000 hands and 5000 calories a day

[colquhom]

For the next 14 days I'm going to try to play 5000 hands a day and eat 5000 calories a day, simple as really.

[Flushdraw]

Why do you want to eat double the recommended daily allowance of calories

[Rufio]

Best of luck.

[Moneymaker]

Uh, why?

[cardshark202]

Basically you plan to abuse yourself physically and mentally for 2 weeks?

[colquhom]

Ha, I primarily play Rush so the poker will get done in less than 5 hours most likely so thats not exactly torture.

The food will be trickier but its just 4 big meals and a shake a day really. Though i only have 6 hours left of today and i havent played any poker yet.

Double the calories because i find it impossible to put on weight and thought i might do 2 weeks of it and see how it goes.

[Moneymaker]

Oh, you want to bulk?

You realise that just loading yourself up with calories is not exactly the most effective/healthy way to gain weight?

Join a gym, lift lots of heavy things and eat copius amounts of protein.

And you won't have your soul destroyed playing poker.

[Emmet]

Bulk and Cut. Sounds good to me.

[colquhom]

I've been in the gym for about 4 months, put on about 9 pounds or so but have seriously stagnated over the last while so trying to break through.

Bulk and cut as Emmet says, though in my case it will prob just be bulk and hope never to cut.

[Emmet]

What's your current weight?
What kind of exercises and at what weights are you lifting?
What would be a normal days eating now?
What kind of foods are you hoping to add into the diet to get up the calories?

Basically I'd recommend eating "normally" enough if you've been clean, while adding in regular high density cals like nuts, cheese, oils, MILK as often as possible.

[colquhom]

What's your current weight?
What kind of exercises and at what weights are you lifting?
What would be a normal days eating now?
What kind of foods are you hoping to add into the diet to get up the calories?

Basically I'd recommend eating "normally" enough if you've been clean, while adding in regular high density cals like nuts, cheese, oils, MILK as often as possible.

Was 9st12, now 10st 7, 180cm

Have been doing a 5 day split, something like,

1) Chest Bench 3 sets 8 60kg, incline bench, incline flys, flys
2) Back deadlift 90kg, rows, lat pull downs, shrugs, close grip lat pull down
3) Shoulders, arnold press, 17.5kg each hand, upright rows, lateral raises
4) legs, squat 80kg, leg press, calf raises, machines for quads/hamstrings
5) arms, bicep curls, 15kg each side + EZ bar, preacher curls, skull crusher etc

Just put in the weights for the big ones because they give the best idea i suppose, all 3X8 for sets.

As it is,

Breakfast : 100g porridge, 2 slices toast, banana
lunch chicken fillet roll
dinner, whatever my mammy cooks,
pre + post gym, 1250 calorie shake total (as in half before, half after)
prob eat something before bed

Looking to fit an extra meal in their somewhere and just be more consistent. Hope to get up earlier so i have time to fit in bolognese at lunch time along with everything else and maybe something better before bed maybe cottage cheese etc

[Moneymaker]

Was 9st12, now 10st 7, 180cm

Have been doing a 5 day split, something like,

1) Chest Bench 3 sets 8 60kg, incline bench, incline flys, flys
2) Back deadlift 90kg, rows, lat pull downs, shrugs, close grip lat pull down
3) Shoulders, arnold press, 17.5kg each hand, upright rows, lateral raises
4) legs, squat 80kg, leg press, calf raises, machines for quads/hamstrings
5) arms, bicep curls, 15kg each side + EZ bar, preacher curls, skull crusher etc

Just put in the weights for the big ones because they give the best idea i suppose, all 3X8 for sets.

As it is,

Breakfast : 100g porridge, 2 slices toast, banana
lunch chicken fillet roll
dinner, whatever my mammy cooks,
pre + post gym, 1250 calorie shake total (as in half before, half after)
prob eat something before bed

Looking to fit an extra meal in their somewhere and just be more consistent. Hope to get up earlier so i have time to fit in bolognese at lunch time along with everything else and maybe something better before bed maybe cottage cheese etc

Not enough protein in there.

Start making ommelettes, eating steak/fish/pork.

Best of luck with your efforts. I'm gonna be bulking soon so i'll be sure to update my own thread with my progress/diet/exercises.

Also, what Emmett said.

[colquhom]

Actually Emmet, does that program seem too much? I hear all this starting strength stuff and stronglifts etc but all my mates who got huge just did splits. What are your thoughts?

[jack90210]

Was 9st12, now 10st 7, 180cm

Have been doing a 5 day split, something like,

1) Chest Bench 3 sets 8 60kg, incline bench, incline flys, flys
2) Back deadlift 90kg, rows, lat pull downs, shrugs, close grip lat pull down
3) Shoulders, arnold press, 17.5kg each hand, upright rows, lateral raises
4) legs, squat 80kg, leg press, calf raises, machines for quads/hamstrings
5) arms, bicep curls, 15kg each side + EZ bar, preacher curls, skull crusher etc

Just put in the weights for the big ones because they give the best idea i suppose, all 3X8 for sets.

As it is,

Breakfast : 100g porridge, 2 slices toast, banana
lunch chicken fillet roll
dinner, whatever my mammy cooks,
pre + post gym, 1250 calorie shake total (as in half before, half after)
prob eat something before bed

Looking to fit an extra meal in their somewhere and just be more consistent. Hope to get up earlier so i have time to fit in bolognese at lunch time along with everything else and maybe something better before bed maybe cottage cheese etc

When you say 5 day split do you mean your doing just one of those every 5 days? Seems like very little to be doing each time you hit the gym. A whole day just for Biceps as well is not neccessary. Remember your hitting your Biceps on loads of the other exercises, wasting time doing loads of isolation work on them.

Your hitting most of the major exercises there. Although defo get some dips, press ups and pullups into your routine.

I prefer 4X8 on most exercises as well, although I'd be struggling to finish the last set.

If your looking to add size your not eating enough protein at all. Get more shakes in there if you can't eat it. Get rid of the bread as well. If your adding calories make sure its protein calories not carbs otherwise you'll just get fat.

[colquhom]

When you say 5 day split do you mean your doing just one of those every 5 days? Seems like very little to be doing each time you hit the gym. A whole day just for Biceps as well is not neccessary. Remember your hitting your Biceps on loads of the other exercises, wasting time doing loads of isolation work on them.

Your hitting most of the major exercises there. Although defo get some dips, press ups and pullups into your routine.

I prefer 4X8 on most exercises as well, although I'd be struggling to finish the last set.

If your looking to add size your not eating enough protein at all. Get more shakes in there if you can't eat it. Get rid of the bread as well. If your adding calories make sure its protein calories not carbs otherwise you'll just get fat.

5 day split as in, I go monday to Friday and I do a different body part each day is what i do. Is that what you meant? Arms, i do rope pushdowns and kick backs and shit aswell, just go bored listing them all off.

[Emmet]

Lurker/Mellor/Theresa and others far far better placed to answer that tbh.

I've only ever been doing full body stuff, so very important to be having rest days. Working the same muscles day in day out will actually take from a plan as opposed to giving your muscles time to recover. The rest day is as important as the weights day imo. That being said, if the split is good enough, and you're avoiding overtraining muscle groups that's fine too, but how can you really do splits and full body exercises too? I'm actually looking to try and get another session or two in on my weeks too though, as I'm going to try get into a serious routine for the summer.

Eat big, lift big, get the testosterone and human growth hormone pumping and keep pushing yourself.

Protein is essential, but I think you are missing it everywhere. Everyone knows the old thing about Vitamin C, that basically you can take 15,000% RDA or whatever and simply piss out the excess. Without proof, I imagine its a similar story for Protein intake. If you take all your protein in one meal, you wont be able to get the needed benefits from it.

Eggs, chicken, steak, shakes and turkey as often as possible tbh. I'm unsure of ideal Macros for a bulking diet, but making food formulaic and boring for the duration of the cut will make things easier imo.

[jack90210]

Working the same muscles day in day out will actually take from a plan as opposed to giving your muscles time to recover. The rest day is as important as the weights day imo.

I think this 5 day split is all wrong IMO. I don't like not hitting something again for a full 5 days. Also to agree with Emmett you need some complete rest days to recover as it is very important.

What I do is
Day 1: Chest/Triceps
Day 2: Legs/Back/Shoulders/Biceps
Day 3: Rest

Although everyone reacts differently to different things. But the idea of only working a particular part once every 5 days doesn't seem good to me at all if your looking for growth.

[colquhom]

I think this 5 day split is all wrong IMO. I don't like not hitting something again for a full 5 days. Also to agree with Emmett you need some complete rest days to recover as it is very important.

What I do is
Day 1: Chest/Triceps
Day 2: Legs/Back/Shoulders/Biceps
Day 3: Rest

Although everyone reacts differently to different things. But the idea of only working a particular part once every 5 days doesn't seem good to me at all if your looking for growth.

Are you not meant to give the body parts maximum rest time so they can grow? And i take the weekends off so im not hitting it again for 6/7 days.

[Mellor]

Best of luck with this, the hardest part will be getting he food in. What you posted there is only about 4000 (include meal before bed). Which is loads, aim for 5000 but if you hit 4000 its not exactly a waste. Also aim for 250-300g protein a day

Actually Emmet, does that program seem too much? I hear all this starting strength stuff and stronglifts etc but all my mates who got huge just did splits. What are your thoughts?

Depends on goals really.
Stronglifts, starting strength etc are strength programs.
3-5 Day splits with isolation work to failure are hypertrophy (ie getting bigger) programs.

The two aren't exclusive, you'll get bigger on a strength program, and stronger on a hypertrophy program. Like those 300lbs bodybuilders are exactly weak. But its not the main focus in either. Depends on what you want. But I think given that you are still light enough than a starting strength program would be fine. You'll prob get bigger just as easily. 5 day splits with isolation work is only needed after you added significant mass and want to push it that bit further. A compound workout like starting strength or any of he 5x5s would help improve your overall body shape.

If your looking to add size your not eating enough protein at all. Get more shakes in there if you can't eat it. Get rid of the bread as well. If your adding calories make sure its protein calories not carbs otherwise you'll just get fat.

That's not remotely true.
You need protein, but there is an upper limit to what you can use. Given he is under 150lbs, 300g a day will more than cover his needs. That's only 1200 calories, the rest can be fat and carbs. I'd say its impossible to bulk with out an excess of carbs. The notion that this will automaticaly become fat is wrong. Most of this will be energy, the thermogenic effect of eating that much food is huge, the carbs serve this allowing the protein to be optimised.

You simple can't do an excessive bulk on protein alone.
A lot of bodybuilder and strongmen on huge intakes are known to liberally add olive oil to food to put the cals. i'm talking a large pizza with 500mls of oil poured over it. A clean bulk is possible, but it means a small surplus and making small gains. Generally people prefer to bulk as much as possible and then cut

Although everyone reacts differently to different things. But the idea of only working a particular part once every 5 days doesn't seem good to me at all if your looking for growth.

With hypertropy programs, you hit individual muscle much harder to failure much more, this is much more demand on the muscle and they need more rest. As I said i don't think its best myself, but there is nothign wrong with it.

[Theresa]

Nonsense about the carbs making you fat.

Carbs are just as important as protein when bulking. Alone each macro is a lot less effective.

Re: Diet: its fairly crap (not that it matters re bulking a whole lot) but it'll just make it harder to change it to a healthier, optimal diet when you decide to cut. But for the purposes of bulking, it doesnt really matter what you eat as long as you get the required calories and protein.

I find it better to way overeat protein than under eat it. That way, let your body decides what it needs. The old adage, better looking at it than looking for it applies.

Re: What programme you do: Given your fairly new, it wont matter, you'll get bigger and stronger regardless, at least for the first while. I would say pick a tried and trusted programme and stick to it though, for the prescribed length and do the prescribed exercises.

[Theresa]

I've more to add but in work. Will come back to this later. Just to say, 5000calories is massively excessive. Ill explain later.

[Theresa]

Ok, I'll be brief as I need to go to bed.

5000calories a day is massively excessive. Theres really no need for this many, somewhere in the region of 300-700 over maintenence is a good idea, anything more than that and it doesnt make a difference to muscle, but will make a difference to fat.

Calorie intake and muscle growth are not linear. The accepted maximum amount of muscle a human male can put on in a month is about 2lbs. Thats about .5 lbs a week. Usually, 500 calories is over maintenence with proper training is enough to do this, maybe as much as 1000 could be needed, as little as 300 in some freaks but usually aiming for a figure like 700 will be ok (again, better looking at it than for it.)

Given your not massively overweight, or not just plain massive, I cant see 4000calories being you're maintenence level. So assuming you're work outs are optimized (big assumption), you'll be just using all those extra cals as storage. fat. Granted you wont have a problem recovering from workouts but that trade off prob isnt worth it.

Plus, 5000 calories of relatively decent food is shit hard to get into you.

[colquhom]

Ok, I'll be brief as I need to go to bed.

5000calories a day is massively excessive. Theres really no need for this many, somewhere in the region of 300-700 over maintenence is a good idea, anything more than that and it doesnt make a difference to muscle, but will make a difference to fat.

Calorie intake and muscle growth are not linear. The accepted maximum amount of muscle a human male can put on in a month is about 2lbs. Thats about .5 lbs a week. Usually, 500 calories is over maintenence with proper training is enough to do this, maybe as much as 1000 could be needed, as little as 300 in some freaks but usually aiming for a figure like 700 will be ok (again, better looking at it than for it.)

Given your not massively overweight, or not just plain massive, I cant see 4000calories being you're maintenence level. So assuming you're work outs are optimized (big assumption), you'll be just using all those extra cals as storage. fat. Granted you wont have a problem recovering from workouts but that trade off prob isnt worth it.

Plus, 5000 calories of relatively decent food is shit hard to get into you.

Cheers, what would you suggest to optimize workouts.

I honestly think i should change this goal to getting up at 9 in the morning, everything else would prob just come naturally.

[Theresa]

Cheers, what would you suggest to optimize workouts.

I honestly think i should change this goal to getting up at 9 in the morning, everything else would prob just come naturally.

I dont know. I mean, theres honestly a billion answers to that, and all will have some merit. As usual, it depends.

Given you're fairly new, Id try get someone to teach you some compound movement. i.e. movements that work more than 1 body part. Bench Press, Squat, Deadlift, Shoulder Press etc. Once you have these down, Id suggest you decide exactly what it is you want to bulk up. Upper body? Lower body? Be well proportioned? Arms and Chest? Shoulders?

I would also suggest you research some tried and tested programmes (goal specific) and follow them to the word. Or get a qualified personal trainer (not an avid researcher/reader like myself) to do you a plan.

Whatever you do, consistency and FORM are what is gonna bring results.

[Mellor]

5000calories a day is massively excessive. Theres really no need for this many, somewhere in the region of 300-700 over maintenence is a good idea, anything more than that and it doesnt make a difference to muscle, but will make a difference to fat.

This is spot on.
I ignored the fact that 5000 was excess as it was only planned for two weeks so its prob ok as a kickstart. As a long term goal its way too much. I also went with the assumption that you'd fall short of this most days.

But as Thersea says, 700 over maintenance would be a good target. 500-1000 would be the range I'd suggest.

Based on your stats,
If you excercise 1-3 days a week on averge you need 2400 cals a day maintenance
3 - 5 days a week you need 2700 maintenance.

So that would suggest a bulk target of 3000-3500 depending on how much you train

Given you're fairly new, Id try get someone to teach you some compound movement. i.e. movements that work more than 1 body part. Bench Press, Squat, Deadlift, Shoulder Press etc. Once you have these down, Id suggest you decide exactly what it is you want to bulk up. Upper body? Lower body? Be well proportioned? Arms and Chest? Shoulders?

IMO you can go very far with the basic lifts alone. With the assistance stuff is only really needed to correct issues or focus on paticular areas.

If you include pull-up and power cleans you've got a great program.
That's bascially what I currently do. With some variations of bench/squat/press added in.

[colquhom]

This is spot on.
I ignored the fact that 5000 was excess as it was only planned for two weeks so its prob ok as a kickstart. As a long term goal its way too much. I also went with the assumption that you'd fall short of this most days.

But as Thersea says, 700 over maintenance would be a good target. 500-1000 would be the range I'd suggest.

Based on your stats,
If you excercise 1-3 days a week on averge you need 2400 cals a day maintenance
3 - 5 days a week you need 2700 maintenance.

So that would suggest a bulk target of 3000-3500 depending on how much you train



IMO you can go very far with the basic lifts alone. With the assistance stuff is only really needed to correct issues or focus on paticular areas.

If you include pull-up and power cleans you've got a great program.
That's bascially what I currently do. With some variations of bench/squat/press added in.

Thanks a mill, say i changed to say stronglifts, could i throw in pull ups and power cleans to that, or is that necessary? Also, i like going to the gym, if im training 3 days a week is it okay to go say 2 more days and just fuck around doing abs and shit?

[Theresa]

Stonglifts is pretty intense when you start lifting heavy. 5x5 sets across at you're top weight on things like DL, Squat and Bench is a lot of work. By all means go for it, the set range and rep range is proven to work but be aware you will need to take days off as the weight builds.

Re: You're other question, you're like me, but taking days off is vital. It will set you back if you don't. As it stands Im never really sure whether Im fully recovered enough to go again so I just play it safe and work on alternate days.

[Mellor]

Thanks a mill, say i changed to say stronglifts, could i throw in pull ups and power cleans to that, or is that necessary? Also, i like going to the gym, if im training 3 days a week is it okay to go say 2 more days and just fuck around doing abs and shit?

I prefer starting stength over strong lifts, they are both very similar, both based on 5x5 stuff done by Bill Starr. But the difference is that the guy behind stronglifts has no real training background. He is just a guy who spotted a hole in the market and re-produced other people stuff as stronglifts. Very savvy obviously.

Starting strength has its flaws too but it's a better start point imo. Don't get me wrong, SL obviously works, its the same lifts really, but the key difference is that SS has two or three versions depending on what you want to do. One of these includes pull-ups and power cleans. So it makes sense picking the program that already has them rather than trying to change SL to fit then in.

As for adding in other days. I would go over 3 heavy lifting days a week. If you want to do an extra day or two. I'd say do one session of interval training and one session of abs, stretching, foaming rolling (to help recovery). Keep the intensity low, thing of them as active recovery

[Lurker23]

I prefer starting stength over strong lifts, they are both very similar, both based on 5x5 stuff done by Bill Starr. But the difference is that the guy behind stronglifts has no real training background. He is just a guy who spotted a hole in the market and re-produced other people stuff as stronglifts. Very savvy obviously.

This x 1 million. It's not pointed out enough for my liking.

There's no real need for the extra two sets as a beginner. The main problem I see with people who start SS is that they don't think that the prescribed workout is enough on its own, especially for the first few weeks. One or two assistance exercises is fine but when people start doing more sets or reps on the squat, bench, etc. They're not doing SS anymore. Don't get me wrong, they'll still make progress (since anything they do will result in progress because they're starting off) but not as much as they would if they followed the program like they should. Believe me, it'll get hard enough in a couple of months.

I'm a firm believer that most of your time in the gym should be spent with a barbell for best results. For example, when I was injured a few months ago and I went on a cut, I used dumbells for the first time in about 4 years. Some people like to "mix it up" every six weeks or so "to keep the body guessing" I hate that phrase. Once you're putting more weight on the bar i.e. getting stronger and more efficient at the compound lifts why change? Perhaps out of boredom I guess but then you could switch to something like the Texas method which allows you to test your 1, 2 and 3 rep maxes on consecutive weeks. Now that is fun!

Anyhow, I've waffled on enough. There's been some great responses before mine and I think everything is covered.

Oh, you need some protein in the morning. I'm lazy so I'd just stick a scoop of protein in your porridge. Job done.

5000 calories would've been fun though