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Couple of line checks

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    Couple of line checks

    Was talking through all my major hands from the SE game last weekend with a friend of mine and we disagreed on the hands below. They arent all that interesting but we couldnt agree so I said I'd post them here.

    hand 1
    Blinds are 100/200
    Hero 35k
    Villain 12k

    I havnt been at the table all that long but I guess my image would be tight enough (lol) seriously though I was just getting my bearings because the last table I was at was a lot softer than this one so I wanted to get up to pace

    So I raise to 550 in mid position with AQo.
    Vaillain only caller OTB.

    Flop 7JQ rainbow.

    I cbet 800 and get raised pretty quickly to 2000. I think for about 30 seconds and call

    Turn is the Qd bring a backdoor flushdraw

    I check
    Villain bets 3k
    I shove?

    hand 2

    This happened about 20 minutes after hand 1. The only read i have on the villain is that he is tilting and pissed off but I have no idea why - prob something that happened before I got to the tabe.

    blinds still 100/200

    Me 40k
    Villain 18k

    Folded around to the villain in the SB who completes
    I bump it up to 650 with ATs

    Flop comes 367r

    Villain c/c a bet of 850

    Turn Ac completing the rainbow

    Villain checks and I quickly check behind

    River Ah

    Villain checks

    I overbet to 4.5k

    thoughts?

    #2
    Hand one i prob play same, only problem is its hard for him to have a Q and not load draws on flop only 910, k10.

    Hand two i make it 800 pre, Im betting this turn like 80% the time. If hes decent he'll know u should bluff this turn decent amount of the time. I just take the bet, bet, bet, line here, Bvb ppl give u less credit. Like if u bet 1800 on turn then u can bet 4-5k on the river.
    ''Oh my god, I'm dropping shit like a pigeon
    I hope you're listening, smacking babies at their christening''

    Comment


      #3
      Hand one is fine getting it in on the flop is ok too he can have all sorts of bad Queens here
      2.Hand two if villain is tilting as badly as you say i can see him calling with any 2 pair.
      Id prefer to bet the turn when ace hits as i think were good most of the time and build a pot so we can extract more value on the river.

      Comment


        #4
        hand 1 is fine ithink, he has circa 5.5k of a 12k stack allready in so its unlikely he is folding, it is fair to assume that you are never folding either. if he turns 77 or jj so beit but iam happy enough to get them in here.

        hand 2, don't really know tbh and often find myself in similiar situations,
        why did you not bet the turn?
        don't like the over bet on the river, and i doubt villian has a hand either most likely an open ended straight draw. doubt he ever checks 45 back here on the river and might check/call bottom or middle pair to a smaller bet roughly 1500-1800.



        "Remember the time he ate my goldfish? And you lied and said I never had goldfish. Then why did I have the bowl, Bart? Why did I have the bowl?"

        Comment


          #5
          I dont like getting it in on the flop in hand 1 - not because I dont think I have the best hand but because I dont want to lose value and scare the villain away. The Q turn obv helps my hand but Im also c/shipping all brick turns too. My mate reckons he would call the turn and ship the river which I hate tbh.

          Hand 2 is interesting. I actually thought briefly about bet bet bet but I thought I was getting more value from the line I took. I also overbet there with all brick rivers. The Ace on the river is probably more useful in so far as it makes me look more full of crap than helping me by giving me trips

          Comment


            #6
            I think you can flat the turn in hand one. I don't see too many worse hands calling your shove, and you're as likely to house up as he is to hit whatever draws he has. Plus he can bluff the river with his missed draws and total airballs, and you don't want to lose that value.

            Definitely bet the turn in 2 and then the river just depends on what he's actually got. I don't like the overbet because you'd probably have to fold to a shove. An overbet is most effective in situations where your range is completely polarised, forcing your opponent to make crying calls with mediocre hands. You've certainly got plenty of air in your range, but you're far from holding the nuts here.
            "I can’t find anyone who agrees with what I write or think these days, so I guess I must be getting closer to the truth." - Hunter S. Thompson

            Comment


              #7
              Hand 1: I would play the same and flat the turn to catch all his bluffs on the river. I guess it's read dependent as to whether it's a shove or call. I really don't mind either play, by flatting we get value from all his river bluffs and by shipping we get value from his draws. After putting half his stack into this hand already he should be committed, right? So I doubt either line would be bad. I know I could not fold that turn anyway!

              Hand 2: Why the overbet? Making it 1.6-2.6k depending on how much I think villain will pay off. Can't understand the overbet though, have you history with villain? I would play the same apart from the overbet btw.

              Comment


                #8
                head 1 looks OK, he should never fold anyway unless he's got absolute air which seems unlikely

                just make a regular value bet in hand 2 unless you have some sort of history with villain
                "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hand 1 is fine. I'd bet the turn in hand 2 all day long, 3/4 pot it on river

                  Comment


                    #10
                    ok so hand 1 seems pretty wrapped up. I agree with above he shouldnt be folding to the ship but after a long dwell he mucked asking me did I beat a jack.

                    Now on to hand 2 and reasons for the line (maybe Im wrong with this thinking)

                    By the river i have the effective nuts - what I mean is there is no way the villain has a better hand than me there. He would have to have some sick soul read to go for the crai on the river after Iv checked behind on the turn. So what hands do I put him on?

                    I think his range consists pretty much of crap one pair hands looking to get to showdown cheaply. any busted draws he may have had arent going to pay off a bet no matter how small. Because there is so much air in my range it is plausable I get paid off by all his one pair hands (maybe even K high? but thats a stretch)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      you're always overthinking relatively simple hands imo
                      "We are not Europeans. Those people on the continent are freaks."

                      Comment


                        #12
                        bump for the night time crew

                        Comment


                          #13
                          1st hand looks fine, 2nd hand i'd lead on turn and bet about 3k ish for value on the river
                          Jayzus, Sheila! I forgot me feckin' trousers

                          Comment


                            #14
                            1. I like call, check call.

                            2. Bet turn, bet river. You have to bet turn because that is a card you should be betting with all your bluffs.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              fwiw, i like your lines in both hands from the beginning but someone mentioned flatting the turn in hand 1 because he was 'as likely to 'fill up his draws as you are to boat up and you dont want lose value (if u have best hand)' which i found interesting and am trying to figure if it is actually better but my initial is reaction is just re-ship and somehow think its still still a better option.

                              as for hand 2. i like your logic in overbetting. i mean your range is polarised for all intents and purposes as far as i am concerned. i mean you do have the nuts pretty much
                              and the likelihood he has a hand that beats you is very small imo so for me he is going to call you enough with 2pair type hands that think your bluffing to make it more +EV long term than goin for thin value bet.

                              as for betting the turn when the A comes..well thats fine also but checking seems fine also. I'm not convinced it's necessarily better to bet turn. i mean we remain in control of the pot if we check this turn and can make good river decisions and we are still likely to remain ahead (if we are ahead) on alot of rivers.

                              v deep or in cashgame or perhaps a rebuy tourney i'm way more likely to be betting turn in hand 2 but here i just prefer a check

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Hand 1: C/c turn, c/c river.
                                Hand 2: Bet turn. Its a very easy bet. Loadsa people seem to check them back, but its not good. Especially vs villain described. As played I reckon the overbet is fine vs most live guys. You know when you check back turn that your range is pretty much entirely medium strength hands that are happy to get to showdown and aces right? To overbet you need enough bluffs in your range vs someone good. Vs a good player I really don't like the line. Also vs a good player you don't have the effective nuts. Given description of a semi-tilting villain who prob isn't good I like it though on the river.
                                Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  H1: fine

                                  H2: Bet turn

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by TommyGunne View Post
                                    Hand 1: C/c turn, c/c river.
                                    Hand 2: Bet turn. Its a very easy bet. Loadsa people seem to check them back, but its not good. Especially vs villain described. As played I reckon the overbet is fine vs most live guys. You know when you check back turn that your range is pretty much entirely medium strength hands that are happy to get to showdown and aces right? To overbet you need enough bluffs in your range vs someone good. Vs a good player I really don't like the line. Also vs a good player you don't have the effective nuts. Given description of a semi-tilting villain who prob isn't good I like it though on the river.
                                    re hand 2 - yeah someone pointed out that because I checked the turn I have a lot less air in my range than I think because the Ace is obv a card Im supposed to bluff at.

                                    However as you pointed out most live guys will think wtf he didnt bet the ace on the turn now he's betting the river - which nets me the valooo

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      1. I prefer to call and then call any river. There's always the chance live donks will fold to your shove when they shouldn't or they can get away from a random brainfade/spewy bluff.

                                      2. Bet that turn ffs. Given the description I like the river bet but I am betting the turn always with all my range.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        1. Way better to call and check call rather than shove. You aren't getting a call with any of his bluffs with a shove.

                                        2. Turn is a mandatory bet. Esp since he is tilting. River is okay too.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          #1: c/c turn, c/c river.
                                          #2: bet turn and river for value. checking the turn is pretty bad imo.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            I actually like turn check in hand two given villain is frustrated and tilting. Too easy for him to fold turn but he'll want to believe you don't have it on river because you didn't bet turn. Bet a bit less though, make it look more like a bluff than an obv value over bet. Maybe 3k. Nice bluffy amount, still big and looks like you're trying to get him to fuck off and just grabbed three fuck off chips. Also allows him to hang himself and think he can make you fold.

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