AK - 200nl

[RoadSweeper]

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($335.65)
Hero (Button) ($411.60)
SB ($174.45)
BB ($798.25)
UTG ($200)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, K
UTG bets $7, 1 fold, Hero calls $7, 2 folds

Flop: ($17) 9, K, Q (2 players)
UTG bets $14, Hero calls $14

Turn: ($45) 9 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($45) A (2 players)
UTG bets $20, Hero raises $59, UTG raises $159 (All-In), Hero grabs a noose and folds


Villain is 26/13/2.5 over 50 hands. He seems kinda somewhat like a semi reg maybe a reg. Everyones stats are kinda skewed this session cause of a drooler art the table. I am prob seen as aggro pre and post. I've had a few unsuccessful flop check raises, but none vs this villain.

Though on the raise on the river, do you raise call, or raise fold?

Also, river raise size a bit small?

[Hectorjelly]

A lot of Tags are incapable of bluffing in spots like this so I think I would just fold unless I had a read. Tough hand though, he could definitely be bluffing. I would raise a little more.

[AndyFatBastard]

Why no 3bet pre?

[ianmc38]

Why no 3bet pre?

Because AK vs an UTG raise isn't always a 3bet and there is also a drooler at the table who we want to call with A5 or KT etc

[Line Us]

Pretty weird spot on the river, I agree that Tags probably wont bluff here much but I think its kinda weird that he would have a better hand often enough as played by the river. Surely he barrells QQ,KK and AA on the turn. Why didnt you bet the turn btw? Your hand probably looks like a one pair hand or AJ/A10 or some hand with equity that floated a flop so theres probably loads of value on the turn here + the flush draw.

When you check back the turn your hand is pretty underrepped and then you raise what looks like a river blocking bet by the villain. I think this has to look like a bluff from you so often to the villian and coupled with the fact that you can never have a full house/straight or even top 2 usually after checking back the turn surely even the worst of tags must be tempted to bluff here. If he was actually any good I'm sure he'd shove Ak/AQ for value and maybe any A too to get you off a split. Also another point is that there arent many combos of AA and KK. I'd assume that he usually doesnt have J10 in his utg opening range but should have 99, Ac9c or Ah9h so we're behind to 9 combos only. If you think he doesnt ever raise AQ or bluff ever then the fold is fine.

I think i'd make a crying call here with AK because of his turn check and the small river bet. I'd definitely fold any other A though.

[RoadSweeper]

I am unsure about the turn line. I checked behind for deception and I was hoping to raise a few rivers also I felt he would c/f alot.

Is the turn an auto bet for you?

I know my hand is under repped, and I know he could bluff shove here given my perceived range, but i don't think he is good enough to take advantage of this. So basically, I was thinking the same as HJ and was wondering if people think any different.

[Line Us]

I am unsure about the turn line. I checked behind for deception and I was hoping to check raise a few rivers also I felt he would c/f alot.

Is the turn an auto bet for you?

I know my hand is under repped, and I know he could bluff shove here given my perceived range, but i don't think he is good enough to take advantage of this. So basically, I was thinking the same as HJ and was wondering if people think any different.

I think I'd bet this turn the majority of the time alright, probably not that big (30ish) because you'll have alot of semi bluff floats in your range when u do this other times, also I dont think he will or should checkraise you much. I can see why you'd check it back though every now and again alright, for deception and he is probably gonna check fold alot. I just think that you can be floating pretty often here so he will probably call with worse Kx and Q's.

The weird thing about this hand is him not barelling the turn though, I just dont see him taking this line with his monsters. Surely he just goes bet/bet/bet against an unknown.

[Guest]

I just think that you can be floating pretty often here so he will probably call with worse Kx and Q's.

How many of those does he have in his UTG range though. I think not much worse calls a turn bet and the deception etc gained from checking back taking a free card against possible c/r outweighs the value in betting.

[ianmc38]

This looks like one of those spots where it's like well OMG this can never be a bluff so I have to fold.

I think this can be a bluff from a good player a decent percentage of the time. We don't have many monsters in our range, few if any full houses and a straight is unlikely. Also, his line doesn't make a lot of sense to me, bet flop, check turn, bet 3bet river is repping a pretty narrow range. I don't see why he would check 9X/99/QQ/KK/AA/JT on the turn as he can't expect us to bet a lot of the hands we call the flop with. I'd more than likely check the turn with a lot of Kx hands and i'd obviously be checking with any Q x hand that i wanted to show down. Also with KJ it's going to be hard to get 2 more streets of value.

Overall it's a crap spot that's really impossible to give a good answer to as the real answer is it depends.

I do think there is a decent chance that he is turning a made hand like AJ into a bluff and I hate raise folding ina spot like this versus an unknown, because this is a spot where people do tend to do stupid stuff.

[Line Us]

How many of those does he have in his UTG range though. I think not much worse calls a turn bet and the deception etc gained from checking back taking a free card against possible c/r outweighs the value in betting.

Obviously all the combos of AQ, along with some KJ and QJs hands will call and then we have some equity versus all non full house hands. Once he checks the turn I'd weight his check calling hands more towards his one pair hands so I think theres plenty of value to be had. Also I dont think he will check raise here often at all, it would be beyond bad. Just a matter of opinion of what you think he's range for check calling the turn is I suppose.

Also when you check you never have a full house/straight. This means you have either air and given up or showndown value. If you bet the turn your range can be air/semibluffs/made hands. Its not really super deceptive to check back AK if your normally going to check back KJ/AQ/QJ anyway so your probably not gaining much value by doing it. Anyway thats only a small point, i think the main point in betting is that you have equity even if he has KQ or AA say and he definitely will call with worse also.

[TheSnapper]

I don't see why he would check 9X/99/QQ/KK/AA/JT on the turn as he can't expect us to bet a lot of the hands we call the flop with.

Given hero's aggro image, should villain be checking his monsters on the turn, can he really expect much value barrelling what is likely perceived, a really tight range.

[Hectorjelly]

I think its far more likely that a TAG checks a good hand on the turn, than he bets AJ (or a bluff) or similar on the river, then decides to turn it into a bluff rather than just calling or folding. The second scenario isn't impossible, but I think its a fold.

[RoadSweeper]

I think its far more likely that a TAG checks a good hand on the turn, than he bets AJ (or a bluff) or similar on the river, then decides to turn it into a bluff rather than just calling or folding. The second scenario isn't impossible, but I think its a fold.

+1

Thats what I was thinking. I think its is far more likely that he is gonna have a slowplayed hand or try and trap me instead of a turning his hand into a bluff when he gets raised on the river.

I also think its more likely that he is bad/okay rather than very good.

[Moneymaker]

I don't mind a fold at all, unless you think he can shove AQ/KQ or AK here. Sick spot.

[cardshark202]

No-one bluffs here, well its just too unlikely unless you either have a really tricky aggro image or he has shown a tendency to FPS spots like this. I also think its a terrible spot for him to turn something like AJ into a bluff because your value-raising range contains more monsters than thin hands like AK or AQ.

[TommyGunne]

I think its far more likely that a TAG checks a good hand on the turn, than he bets AJ (or a bluff) or similar on the river, then decides to turn it into a bluff rather than just calling or folding. The second scenario isn't impossible, but I think its a fold.

Couldn't agree more with this

[ianmc38]

HJ et al what's the worst hand you call a river shove with? Would you call with 89s or JT?

[Hectorjelly]

Definitely not calling with 89s. that is exactly the same as AK on this board given the action. If I call its because I either beat his value range, and I think a straight is below this, or I think he is bluffing, in which any bluff catcher is fine. I think villain has AA fwiw.

[cardshark202]

He can definitely have QQ-AA or 99 too imo. 89s is a fold as is JT imo.

[ianmc38]

So the worst hand you call with is what A9?

And moving on from that, is this a good spot to bluff (if you're the villain)?

Also, good stuff, looks like we're getting a poker forum going agaiN!

[cardshark202]

btw as an aside if you have a tight image I think raising AK on that river is probably too thin.

[RoadSweeper]

Also, good stuff, looks like we're getting a poker forum going agaiN!

+1

Good to see some high quality posts

[Guest]

Also, good stuff, looks like we're getting a poker forum going agaiN!

Still to many donkament hands though

[Denny Crane]

idk, weird spot, but his line doesn't make much sense to me so I'd just call. checking the turn w/ most of the hands that beat us seems pretty bad, and we don't look very strong at all.

[Opr]

This thread reminded me of one on boards a while back.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055465103

Thing is this particular spot has been discussed in a number of areas and as such its no longer true to say only very tricky players bluff here.

Opr

[digiman]

This thread reminded me of one on boards a while back.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055465103

Thing is this particular spot has been discussed in a number of areas and as such its no longer true to say only very tricky players bluff here.

Opr

Probably the last time I had $1.9k on a table!!! Oh back in my day!!

[ianmc38]

HJ and CS what is the worst hand you'd call the shove with? Is Q9 or K9 much different to JT? Would you call with A9 or would you call with any full house?

[pok3rplaya]

Didn't read anything except OP but your river raise is nasty.

[bohsman]

Reasons for not raising the flop?

[Bubbleking]

i presume you dont raise the flop because you are only getting called by hands that have you beat but why didnt you bet the turn yourself when checked to?

edit - sorry just read reasoning above. turn is an auto bet for me circa 23 - 25

[ianmc38]

Reasons for not raising the flop?

That would be horrific tbh.

[RoadSweeper]

Didn't read anything except OP but your river raise is nasty.

Size or just vs his range?

[pok3rplaya]

I just don't think he calls with worse really but we open ourselves up to getting owned.

[cardshark202]

HJ and CS what is the worst hand you'd call the shove with? Is Q9 or K9 much different to JT? Would you call with A9 or would you call with any full house?

Thing is I wouldn't play any of those hands like that so its hard to say. I can see his range being weighted towards queens full and better. I probably wouldn't fold any full house though maybe I should be folding Q9 and K9.

[deadmoney]

Sorry OP you seem like a thinking player and have your reasons for playing the hand you did but I think you played this hand just horrible. I'm always 3betting AKs here IP unless I have a very laggy player to act behind me who I think will squeeze here often. As played though I am not a fan of checking behind the turn as you lose a street of value from 1pair+draw type hands and the raise on the river is just awful. What are you expecting to call you that you beat on this board? River is an insta fold all day (facing the shove I mean)!