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KQ off Under the Gun: Options if any?

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    KQ off Under the Gun: Options if any?

    Late in Live freezeout with blinds 600/300 and 50 ante, 8 handed.

    Almost all the players between roughly 10000 and 30000 with the largest stack (30k) at the cut off.
    BB is short stack with around 8k

    Solid table in which play has been tight with late position attempts at blinds common and few flops but action when they arrive. Some 3-betting preflop usually to folds and a rare all fold.
    Had a spell of aggression in the orbit before last but have been playing TAG mostly

    UTG with KQo and 11500 (8.8). Any suggestions?

    Considering 1500 but a fold here is not beyond me as this is a hand i particularly dislike out of position. There are likely to be a load of ways to play this from shipping and folding but i'm not sure i like any!

    #2
    Folding>>>>Shipping>>>>Making it 1500>>>>Limping

    If you make it 1500 and someone ships, what do we do? I don't like calling it off and i don't like folding with this stack size. I'm happy enough to fold here

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      #3
      ? Shipping 20 BBs UTG is better than raising? I'd much rather raise than ship.

      As for the hand. I would fold.
      Looking for full or part time poker and betting writers. PM if interested.

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        #4
        UTG, especially 8, 9 or 10 handed its a fold. However if you were to play the hand, shipping is def better than raising imo when there are antes in play and you can increase your stack by over 10%

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          #5
          Just fold IMO.

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            #6
            Ah didn't see the antes. Gotta be pretty close though. The idea of shoving 20 BBs UTG with KQ is just disgusting.
            Looking for full or part time poker and betting writers. PM if interested.

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              #7
              Fold IMO. Don't like making a standard raise with so many people behind to act, shipping 20BB UTG is just meh and limping is just insanely bad.

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                #8
                Dont like a shove.
                -At a tight table 1500 from UTG looks mega strong. It should have much the same FE as a shove.
                -If we had a monster here like AA,KK or QQ we would not shove so we cant shove here with this hand.
                -When our shove gets called we we are often crushed.

                As to the hand. I fold. But I wouldnt fault you for making it 1500 at a tight table.
                Happiness is not a goal; it is a by-product. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

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                  #9
                  Shoving is not profitable IMO and given its a live tourney with more than likely not very good players is also completly unnecessary. Very torn between opening to 1300-1500 and folding and i don't fault either (online im folding more than im opening) but i probably open given its live and depending on the quality of the players i don't expect to get 3bet light at all.
                  They will be like WTF how does he always have the top of his range, and they will be saying that when you show up with like nine's - Jimmy Fricke
                  Nine's are the top of my range - Shaun Deeb

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                    #10
                    It's a fold for me too. 8 handed you'd be running into a hand that can call/re-raise, and dominate you, far too often.

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                      #11
                      Shoving is most likely barely profitable but really awful compared with raise folding, this is live poker noone is sticking it in your face light over a utg open off your stack size and people can still flat dominated hands sometimes setting up profitable post flop spots.

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                        #12
                        Shoving is unprofitable if everyone calling optimally (which admittedly they won't be).

                        I don't like raise folding at this stack but it has to be done sometimes, particularly live. But if you're raising to fold you might as well have 72o: it comes down to how often it gets through (or gets flatted).

                        Folding is nitty but ok.

                        Gawa's point about people calling with the likes of KJ/QJ live is a good one. If it's that kind of table and there's a chance it gets through or the blinds peel with a view to check folding if they miss, I'd probably raise to 1200 or 1300. If it's much more likely I'll get shipped on I just fold. Speed of structure and softness of table are factors too. The faster the structure, the more likely I am to play the hand.
                        My poker blog - Doking around in cyberspace

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by doke View Post
                          Shoving is unprofitable if everyone calling optimally (which admittedly they won't be).

                          I don't like raise folding at this stack but it has to be done sometimes, particularly live. But if you're raising to fold you might as well have 72o: it comes down to how often it gets through (or gets flatted).

                          Folding is nitty but ok.

                          Gawa's point about people calling with the likes of KJ/QJ live is a good one. If it's that kind of table and there's a chance it gets through or the blinds peel with a view to check folding if they miss, I'd probably raise to 1200 or 1300. If it's much more likely I'll get shipped on I just fold. Speed of structure and softness of table are factors too. The faster the structure, the more likely I am to play the hand.
                          Not exactly true, much more likely if we raise we will be flatted rather than 3 bet. therefore having a hand with equity against a flatting range is important, esp if we will be flatted by worse hands than kq

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Downtown View Post
                            Not exactly true, much more likely if we raise we will be flatted rather than 3 bet. therefore having a hand with equity against a flatting range is important, esp if we will be flatted by worse hands than kq
                            Plus blockers!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by cardshark202 View Post
                              UTG, especially 8, 9 or 10 handed its a fold. However if you were to play the hand, shipping is def better than raising imo when there are antes in play and you can increase your stack by over 10%
                              I agree with the majority here myself and believe the fold is optimal, I came to the folding conclusion myself after a while but its good to hear some other opinions and insights.
                              Feel the 1200-1500 is only worthwhile on an exceptionally weak table and shipping is better if you insist on playing the hand but I'm certain now this is a fold.

                              Of course in reality I didn't analyse the hand at all and after considering either raising or folding for a microsecond made a snap shove that I immediately regretted that was called by AK in middle position.

                              King, brick, brick flop made it clear that anything but fold/bet-fold was ruining me and I was out of the tourney.

                              Lesson learnt, i'll be folding from now on and not putting my tourney on the line without more analysis.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Fold this quite happily

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