urghhhhh

[newbie2]

No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 250/500 Blinds (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button (t15860)
SB (t9290)
BB (t17200)
Hero (UTG) (t13995)
UTG+1 (t16705)
MP1 (t21500)
MP2 (t11030)
MP3 (t15555)
CO (t9725)

Hero's M: 18.66

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q
Hero bets t1500, 2 folds, MP2 calls t1500, 5 folds

Flop: (t3750) A, K, A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t1000, Hero calls t1000

Turn: (t5750) A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks

River: (t5750) 2 (2 players)
Hero ?


His turn check behind realy worries me

[BallymoreChris]

Just check call the river no?

[Mellor]

What are yu asking? Obviously you can't lead, a King isn't folding and no worse hand calls imo

Not exactly many other options for you from there

[newbie2]

Can I Check/call with my stack? eff stack 11k.

[BallymoreChris]

Can I Check/call with my stack? eff stack 11k.

Did you check the river?
How much was the river bet?


Some people will bet 1.5kish on the river in your spot, the thinking is he can't bluff you then.

[newbie2]

yeah, i checked the river.

he bet 4200

[Mellor]

That's still not a reason to lead.

Hero ??? on river is rather silly. You can't lead here. This is really really trivial. So just check, it will be checked behind a lot and you'll win.
If you think the villian will have a stab at rivers, the c/c
if you think he only bets a K or better, then c/f.

[Mellor]

yeah, i checked the river.

he bet 4200

include this in the OP in future

[newbie2]

include this in the OP in future

Don't tell me what to do

[Wolves]

Don't tell me what to do.

Thought that was the point of the thread?

[Flushdraw]

Just coz Arsenal got outbid for Carroll doesn't mean you have to take it out on Mellor

[Mellor]

Don't tell me what to do.

piss off you child

[BallymoreChris]

yeah, i checked the river.

he bet 4200

ve

I just fold to that bet.

If your considering calling that size bet then you probably should have bet 2k on the river. Your never getting bluffed on the river after betting.

[BallymoreChris]

piss off you child

lol..there's a pair of you in it!!

[Flushdraw]

FYP lads

[newbie2]

Is there a way of ignoring a poster?

Can't find anything in my CP.

BTW Mellor - I'm older than you kiddo.

[Mellor]

good edit FD, obv wasn't serious and didn't take Newbie to be either


BallymoreChris, I really don't like the lead for 2k
True we never get bluffed by him, but;
He never calls worse
He never folds better

I just think that betting 2k is take a big chunk of our equity away the times when we are ahead. If we are worries about getting bluffed then just called his bets, as at least that way we get the value of his bluffs, which ge folds when we lead.

tbh, its player dependant, some players I snap this off other i fold being sure they don't bet <QQ

[BallymoreChris]

I don't like betting 2k either, its a better option than calling 4k though.
It was more of an alternative route rather than the one I'd take myself.

[TommyGunne]

Why are you 3x opening?

River line depends on reads imo. Against most tourney donks you can get value here, but dependent on your image and what he's like (assuming bad given preflop.), I think you can get a sneaky small vb in here. Against some guys its better to check/call or c/f.

All that being said, I still fold to 4200. It scares me, and its an awful spot for him to bluff at.

[newbie2]

Normally at this stage I'd be betting 2.5 x BB but UTG and EP I'm always betting 3x, 3.5x BB.

I agree the 4200 bet was a fold.

I suppose I posted this hand because I wanted reassurance. I played every hand in this tourney really badly - you can ask Doke, I really need a 'yep - good fold' or something.

Maybe we should open a GG UL thread - as the BBv has turned into a love fest for the IPB clique.

[TommyGunne]

Normally at this stage I'd be betting 2.5 x BB but UTG and EP I'm always betting 3x, 3.5x BB.

I agree the 4200 bet was a fold.

I suppose I posted this hand because I wanted reassurance. I played every hand in this tourney really badly - you can ask Doke, I really need a 'yep - good fold' or something.

Maybe we should open a GG UL thread - as the BBv has turned into a love fest for the IPB clique.

I think 3xing is defo too much, but I'm very much in favour of opening smaller and wider usually.

[Mellor]

I suppose I posted this hand because I wanted reassurance. I played every hand in this tourney really badly - you can ask Doke, I really need a 'yep - good fold' or something.

Fold is fine. As is your line imo. It's one of those frustrating spots, where the flop removes lots of value from our hand.

I think 3xing is defo too much, but I'm very much in favour of opening smaller and wider usually.

I've noticed that lately when you've gone deep in MTTs. My standard open is 2.5 which drops as levels progress. Still don't min-open but seen you doing it yesterday to good effect, so food for thought

[newbie2]

It should be noted that there was an ante total of 450 in the middle ( I don't know why HEM didn't put that in the HH).

Tommy - Does this make a difference to your betsizing?

Do you open wider from earlier on, or from the start. FWIW For the first hour of this tourney I was playin very loose - opening very light and limp calling with shit. I have to admit - it was a pretty bad decision on my part as I usually play pretty ABC - but had finished 7th and 3rd in this before- -so was trying something new. Do you find betting 2X or 2.5X 'price' donks in to call preflop?

[sligoboi]

Fold is fine. As is your line imo. It's one of those frustrating spots, where the flop removes lots of value from our hand.


I've noticed that lately when you've gone deep in MTTs. My standard open is 2.5 which drops as levels progress. Still don't min-open but seen you doing it yesterday to good effect, so food for thought

I mentioned in a thread a week or two ago that from March I'll be really putting an emphasis on improving my tourney game but I've played a few more tourneys than I would have expected this month and have brought the min open into my game and seems to be working fine. Does the job the same as 2.3-3x, makes our steals and resteals cheaper which in turns allows us to open up our range.

Re: Newbie's Q about pricing people in, the only position who will call because of the price is the bb (if we're deep enough a player who has position on us and feels they have an edge may elect to do so as well but we can deal with that when we come to it) and for all intents and purposes we want them to call. We, hopefully, have an edge on the field, the bb is playing oop and the vast majority of the time has marginal-weak holdings which when added together means we can still win relatively substantial pots with 2x opens.

/my 2c

[TommyGunne]

It should be noted that there was an ante total of 450 in the middle ( I don't know why HEM didn't put that in the HH).

Tommy - Does this make a difference to your betsizing?

Do you open wider from earlier on, or from the start. FWIW For the first hour of this tourney I was playin very loose - opening very light and limp calling with shit. I have to admit - it was a pretty bad decision on my part as I usually play pretty ABC - but had finished 7th and 3rd in this before- -so was trying something new. Do you find betting 2X or 2.5X 'price' donks in to call preflop?

Well I usually play pretty loose anyway, so it was a logical step to decrease my raise sizes. Dunno if I fully like it yet though. Think I might lean towards making it slightly more from EP at the minimum.

Yeah addition of antes do make you need to open bigger, but depending on table I still think 3x is a very big bet. Like when you 3x UTG with 30bb, and a few 20bb stacks behind you, then you need to open quite tight, and you also get shoved on quite tight. I prefer opening wider, stealing more pots (cos I think people in general play too tight, on a looser table, I obv open a little bigger), and it costing me less to do so.

As you mention, bad players start to call as well when you min. This is a very good thing. Even most reg MTTers are a little out of their comfort zone when they're put in a spot where someone mins the BTN, and they have >20bb. They should actually be calling a decent amount there, but nobody does. It becomes a game where people really should start taking flops, and people aren't used to that. Coming from a cash background, I like making people take flops, and I very much like putting people in spots they are not used to. They generally play badly, whereas I am more used to those sort of spots.

All this being said, I still dunno how smart it really is, particularly from EP.

[Laois Hammer]

No one cbet the flop and approach the hand that way?

Regards the bet sizing the only place id really 3x it from would be blind v blind.

[AndyFatBastard]

It should be noted that there was an ante total of 450 in the middle ( I don't know why HEM didn't put that in the HH).

Tommy - Does this make a difference to your betsizing?

Do you open wider from earlier on, or from the start. FWIW For the first hour of this tourney I was playin very loose - opening very light and limp calling with shit. I have to admit - it was a pretty bad decision on my part as I usually play pretty ABC - but had finished 7th and 3rd in this before- -so was trying something new. Do you find betting 2X or 2.5X 'price' donks in to call preflop?

Meh, donkey's preflop calling ranges are just another level of variance to be embraced. If you're playing a balanced, positionally-aware preflop range then you're streets ahead of them heading into every flop, anyway.

[sligoboi]

No one cbet the flop and approach the hand that way?

Regards the bet sizing the only place id really 3x it from would be blind v blind.

SB donks