Tricky Spot with QQ, Correct Line?

[LTL]

Reverso hand which I'm struggling to find any line in which to play the hand profitable.
At this point, the tournament is down to 9 players with 2 prizes.

Hero is utg+1 playing a stack of between 5000-6000.
Blinds at 75/150.

Hero UTG has QsQc and opens to 425.

Folded to Button (playing 10k+) who is loose passive and fairly bad who calls.

SB calls (Playing 6k).

BB Calls (Playing 6k). Capable player who's been playing tight and not been out of line.

Pot: 1700
Flop: 6d 8d 9d.

SB checks, BB leads for 675??

Hero's best line??

Hero still has loose button to act behind and although the donk bet confuses, hero knows BB isn't donk betting weak with 9hAh type hands because he's not that bad.

I couldn't think of a good way to play this spot on such a wet flop as this given the table dynamics??

Any thoughts appreciated.

[AndyFatBastard]

Raise more pre. At least 500 from early position.

The key to making your decision here is to establish your villian's range. IME this kind of bet is usually two pair. He bets because he wants to take the lead in the hand. He figures he probably has the best hand and doesn't want to let anyone draw to a flush. He definitely doesn't want you to check and give a free card to the small blind, so he leads out.

There are of course pair+draw, top pair, flopped straights and sets in his range too. Call now and see what happens. Your call will look strong, so villian is never bluffing, and you're in position, which means he's likely to give you a good bit of information about his hand on the turn.

[Moneymaker]

Yeah I just peel one too. Raising on a board like this would be insane and folding is out of the question. His range is very wide but raising will narrow it to hands that beat us/flip vs us.

x2 on the 500 pre-flop as well. Plan for the turn would depend on what it is and betsize. Obv we fold on a diamond, and probably any 9,7,T or 5 as well.

[Mellor]

I don't think folding is "out of the question", depending on the player in question

[Starvin Marvin]

Pre is fine.

Call now.

[LTL]

I totally don't agree that folding the flop is out of the question here but does feel super tight.

Preflop is fine i think in fact i don't mind anything between 375-425 but the idea of your standard open being 3.3X playing 35-40 bbs deep is bad.

My issue with the hand is the correct flop line to take. If we call we have to remember that the laggy bad button is behind and I really don't see what turn card besides the Qh we are hoping to see.

As said any diamond, 7 , 10 or 5 is horrible, and all others we still have to give up a lot of the time on the turn to presure. We may already be beat by a capable player donking into that flop texture so the more i think about it the more i favour folding the flop being only 35bb's deep.

Opinions on this?
Is there a good way to play this hand at all given the flop texture?

[Closed_Account]

As a rule I NEVER fold (I mean in poker in general) but I think folding the flop here actually would not be that bad. Its a rigged flop and terrible terrible things (rubs thighs furiously) can still to happen after you have acted. Id get to the turn but would have no beef with a fold on the flop.

[ianmc38]

Just fold. It's a terrible flop, you can't call a raise from anyone behind you and you may already be drawing close to dead. Just bin it.

[Angry-Ball]

someone please explain to me why everyone is saying to raise to 500 when 3x is the norm and 2x is starting to become the standard.

i think the preflop raise is fine.

[TommyGunne]

someone please explain to me why everyone is saying to raise to 500 when 3x is the norm and 2x is starting to become the standard.

i think the preflop raise is fine.

I'd imagine the reason is that this is live vs a bunch of guys who are probably real bad. I still prefer this size though without further reads.

I fold flop too. Its just a disaster of a board. Also when jbravado says to fold an OP, you know something is up!

[Bubbleking]

I think its a fold but in practice i think most of us would go for the sneaky peel

[danutpeddler]

Finally I agree with the folders

[Mellor]

What are you hoping to see if you peel?

A and K are obviously bad cards,
T, 7, 6 leave 4 to a straight up there, even the 2 Qs complete open enders and i'd still wouldn't be happy unless the board pairs
Then of course any diamond, not left with a whole lot and we'll a still only have 1 pair on a horrible board.

[blaaaaaaah]

Keep your raises the same preflop if one competant player see's you raising more he wil know whats up plus seen as he is only one at the table (maybe) he will prob think about squeezing a normall 400 standard open or whatever you were making it,so you could miss a oppertunity to play a big pot in position with qq.Obv doesnt happen all the time but that change of raise would scare ppl off.

On the flop if you want to play the hand profitable you have to have a plan, there's no point calling to see another card if you give up to another bet if scare card comes which is highly possible considering the flop texture. To play hands like this you have to merge your hands, I suggest you flat call here as sometimes you do have the best hand but also when flatting here your opponent will think you have Ad in your range alot so by flatting the flop you can either pot control with your qq if comes brick brick or if another diamond comes you can go ahead and rep the nut flush, this is the only way to play the hand profitable imo. When you have position on someone go ahead and use it but just remember what exactly you are trying to rep b4 you do it.

[TommyGunne]

Keep your raises the same preflop if one competant player see's you raising more he wil know whats up plus seen as he is only one at the table (maybe) he will prob think about squeezing a normall 400 standard open or whatever you were making it,so you could miss a oppertunity to play a big pot in position with qq.Obv doesnt happen all the time but that change of raise would scare ppl off.

On the flop if you want to play the hand profitable you have to have a plan, there's no point calling to see another card if you give up to another bet if scare card comes which is highly possible considering the flop texture. To play hands like this you have to merge your hands, I suggest you flat call here as sometimes you do have the best hand but also when flatting here your opponent will think you have Ad in your range alot so by flatting the flop you can either pot control with your qq if comes brick brick or if another diamond comes you can go ahead and rep the nut flush, this is the only way to play the hand profitable imo. When you have position on someone go ahead and use it but just remember what exactly you are trying to rep b4 you do it.

I don't really agree with much of this tbh. The "merging" you are talking about is not merging at all either really. Its just likely spew. Our position also sucks balls here. I defo would not call our position being in position, or if I do, it would come with major major warnings, in that we're shallowish with two other guys behind us on a superwet board. The whole merging by calling QQ and shoving diamonds is bizarre as well imo. Doesn't seem hugely smart to me. A merge would be if we had a smaller diamond there or a straight/set if we thought we could go real thin, not QQ. That would be a bluff. Its not like anyone is going to call a 4 diamond board that was 4ways on the flop, that was also 689 with worse than QQ?

[blaaaaaaah]

You don't use merging for bluffing too? qq into shoving diamonds is an obv bluff...just putting a better theory out there tat if u flat qq with 2 players behind that fold also thought was obv then why can't u rep diamonds if one comes? maybe were just mixed up here i dont no....i no one thing is for sure if you are just flatting qq here on this board soley relying on your hand strenght throughtout the hand then its retarded tbh.

[DrJFF]

Fold, i don't see how you can proceed and be happy wit the results too often

[Moneymaker]

Reading the replies I now think fold is the best play.