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    online mtt

    $18k $10rebuy on ipoker 160 left out of 700 - 80 paid - no info on table just moved and recently doubled up.

    blinds 400 800 100
    i have in 15k sb
    villian has 27k mid pos raises to 2400

    im sb and i call with QQ

    flop QcKs6c

    i check he contiues 1/2 pot I call

    turn 3d

    i check he bets 5k
    i push for roughly 10k he calls


    I'm looking for comments on how I played hand. Prob should rr pre - but didn't and flop was a good one.

    I then check call should I check raise?
    As played on turn should I lead?

    You can probably guess what he had and what river came - but my main thoughts are how I played and should I have rr back sooner.........

    #2
    Originally posted by merkum wallop View Post
    $18k $10rebuy on ipoker 160 left out of 700 - 80 paid - no info on table just moved and recently doubled up.

    blinds 400 800 100
    i have in 15k sb
    villian has 27k mid pos raises to 2400

    im sb and i call with QQ

    flop QcKs6c

    i check he contiues 1/2 pot I call

    turn 3d

    i check he bets 5k
    i push for roughly 10k he calls


    I'm looking for comments on how I played hand. Prob should rr pre - but didn't and flop was a good one.

    I then check call should I check raise?
    As played on turn should I lead?

    You can probably guess what he had and what river came - but my main thoughts are how I played and should I have rr back sooner.........
    I re-raise this for sure pre-flop. What happens if you didn't hit your set and it came King high. Always three-bet from the small blind because you have to play three-streets OOP.

    Comment


      #3
      Oh and considering your stack is 20bb's you're three-betting and getting it in on any flop imo.

      Comment


        #4
        Re-Raise preflop. Maybe some people prefer a shove peflop?

        Shove flop, or as played, shove flop over cbet

        Comment


          #5
          just shove pre



          "Remember the time he ate my goldfish? And you lied and said I never had goldfish. Then why did I have the bowl, Bart? Why did I have the bowl?"

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by RoadSweeper View Post
            Maybe some people prefer a shove peflop?
            Very much so. I think any other action would be pretty poor unless villain is fishy.
            Foldaramus et foldarabimus

            Comment


              #7
              OK so I should rr pre. Is the only rr here a push given stack sizes and blinds?

              As played should I really push flop - do I not want to extract any value here?

              Comment


                #8
                i have to at least reraise QQ pre in or out of position, here tho im prob shoving pre tbh at this stage of tourny.... dont want no big stack AX suited or suited connectors coming along for the ride....happy to take it down pre and if he calls im happy to race with AK at this stage, if he has KK or AA unlucky what can ya do!

                Value...at these blinds and the original raise its already 4500K, thats nearly 30% of your stack....is that not low risk value?
                Last edited by ferg; 11-01-11, 00:23.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by merkum wallop View Post
                  OK so I should rr pre. Is the only rr here a push given stack sizes and blinds?

                  As played should I really push flop - do I not want to extract any value here?
                  Yeah - if you reraise preflop - you're reraising to 6K - which is over 1/3 of your stack. This looks really strong. You're pretty much committed. Original raiser could fold - but he's only got 25k behind - and with 11k in the pot - he's probably gonna call anyway.


                  As for flop - you get any K to call and Q to call and any draw.. As played, I dont mind checking - but i CR big time.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Shove pre in this spot almost all the time.
                    http://carlmorrissey.blogspot.com/
                    http://twitter.com/#!/Moro88

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You palyed it pretty bad tbh.

                      Not raising pre was poor. not CR the flop was worse.

                      Originally posted by merkum wallop View Post
                      You can probably guess what he had and what river came - but my main thoughts are how I played and should I have rr back sooner.........
                      At that point, it was 5k to him into 28k or so, he was correct to call with a draw. You made it quite easy for him, even profitable to play his hand, which was obviously worse.

                      Either shove, or make it 6k and shove flop

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mellor;227127[B
                        ]You palyed it pretty bad tbh[/B].

                        Not raising pre was poor. not CR the flop was worse.



                        At that point, it was 5k to him into 28k or so, he was correct to call with a draw. You made it quite easy for him, even profitable to play his hand, which was obviously worse.

                        Either shove, or make it 6k and shove flop
                        I think OP knows he played it wrong at this stage and theres no need for the bolded above imo . You made ur point, no need to douse it in such negativity. Its not nice to be told how bad you are and how poor you play etc .
                        You got to have a lot of balls, to play golf the way I do!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Nobody is here to be nice. There is little point in sugar coating anything.
                          This is a technical forum, if somebody does something wrong or bad they will be told so.
                          I wasn't being negitive, I was being honest, there is a difference. If you can't take critism then don't ask for advice. There was nothing personal about it.


                          You are reletively new, you'll get used to this. My comments were pretty mild compared to others threads/hands.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Tony3004 View Post
                            I think OP knows he played it wrong at this stage and theres no need for the bolded above imo . You made ur point, no need to douse it in such negativity. Its not nice to be told how bad you are and how poor you play etc .
                            There's no need to sugar coat the advice. Mellor has told it as it was and i'm sure the OP appreciates it. Shove pre, but if you decide not to, you need to get it in on the flop for a number of reasons. I'd seen some harsh things on this forum and Mellor's comments is pretty mild tbh

                            Comment


                              #15
                              lol cr the flop would be atrociously kill yourself bad imo after he flatted pre. I re-raise pre, but if I didn't for any reason, hand is played fine since it's only a minraise on turn, if he bet a little less I might be tempted to just call again and hope he hangs himself on the river

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by cardshark202 View Post
                                lol cr the flop would be atrociously kill yourself bad imo after he flatted pre. I re-raise pre, but if I didn't for any reason, hand is played fine since it's only a minraise on turn, if he bet a little less I might be tempted to just call again and hope he hangs himself on the river
                                What's lol? He could easily c/r the flop with 2 clubs, J10 and some other hands. A c/r wouldn't ooze strength and i don't see AK/AA and some other combos folding with so much invested and not much more back

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Flushdraw View Post
                                  What's lol? He could easily c/r the flop with 2 clubs, J10 and some other hands. A c/r wouldn't ooze strength and i don't see AK/AA and some other combos folding with so much invested and not much more back
                                  What if he's bluffing? You don't need to be balanced against a random donk in a tournament

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by cardshark202 View Post
                                    What if he's bluffing? You don't need to be balanced against a random donk in a tournament
                                    A random donk won't double barrell a lot on this board there's enough scare cards on the turn to allow even a fish to escape from a hand he might stack off with on the flop. If i'm playing the hand, i get my chips in pre/on the flop 90% of the time

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Stacks are shallow, not worth worrying about scare cards. if you're going to cr, waiting til the turn is about 1 billion times better as he'll be pretty much committed by then. If he has tp, only an A might kill your action, but it's a card he prob bluffs on, so no worries there.

                                      A set with shallow stacks is a goldmine for slowplaying, just like AA and to a lesser extent KK are preflop

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        most important thing to be gleaned here is your definitely not jam stealing enough if your not fistpumping this allin preflop.
                                        i'm with cardshark on the postflop play, can't shut down his bluffs after ginning the flop so hard.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Hand was played fine postflop imo.

                                          Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                          You palyed it pretty bad tbh.

                                          Not raising pre was poor. not CR the flop was worse.



                                          At that point, it was 5k to him into 28k or so, he was correct to call with a draw. You made it quite easy for him, even profitable to play his hand, which was obviously worse.

                                          Either shove, or make it 6k and shove flop
                                          This is bad logic. The fact that MP put his last 5k in with a positive expectation (assuming he’s drawing) isn’t relevant. OP got villain to put 10k into a final pot of 32k on that street - pretty great result when his draws have ~ 20% equity.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            But you are basing the above on how it played out, results based.
                                            Had we known that the hand would play like that then its fine. If we know the villain always fires a second barrel then i'm more than happy to c/c the flop and min raise AI on the turn, because as you said, its 10k into a maybe 13k turn pot.
                                            But we don't know that. What if the villain checks back and take a free card in position, knowing that he is behind after you call the c-bet. The turn check is our last action that's important. After that point its irrelevant as it palyes itself.

                                            If the villian checked back and the river is a club, what do you do?
                                            would you still consider that the OP played it fine post?, the relevant action was no different.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                              But you are basing the above on how it played out, results based.
                                              No. I simply countered your argument that we created some profitable situation for his draws on the turn. Your point was illogical.

                                              Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                              What if the villain checks back and take a free card in position, knowing that he is behind after you call the c-bet.
                                              It happens. I take this possibility into account when I say “hand was played fine postflop”. The emphasis should be on keeping his bluffs in the pot with just under a PSB left. Read cardshark's posts.

                                              Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                              If the villian checked back and the river is a club, what do you do?
                                              c/c

                                              Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                              would you still consider that the OP played it fine post?
                                              Yep.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Good debate.
                                                Thanks for comments.
                                                I should of raised pre but don't think I would ever push - but now see why I should.
                                                I think once I've called I was wondering should I be trying to extract as much value as poss against a poss flush draw.
                                                I see arguments for both.

                                                Biggest lesson was to raise pre obv.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Bozzer View Post
                                                  It happens. I take this possibility into account when I say “hand was played fine postflop”. The emphasis should be on keeping his bluffs in the pot with just under a PSB left. Read cardshark's posts.
                                                  It's not that I disagree with you, or CS.
                                                  I fully understand your point, and tbh you have change my initial opinion. But on such a wet board, and shallow stacks, I'd still rather get it in earlier.
                                                  Once he c-bets, if we call we have 3/4 pot left in our stack for the turn. I like jamming this over the c-bet so he has to call 9.5k into over 22k.

                                                  Either way, I think the difference between flop CR and turn check is pretty small. The real problem area is PF

                                                  Comment


                                                    #26
                                                    Yeah I think flatting the flop is fine.
                                                    Foldaramus et foldarabimus

                                                    Comment


                                                      #27
                                                      I know you don't have any reads but for me an exact 3x raise at this stage would tell me that he's probably not a thinking player and as so pretty much puts you on AK,AQ, AJ or a small to mid pair. (which I shove with a lot here too)

                                                      I never get tricky here, just shove pre, the raiser calls with a huge range that you crush but folds a lot on the flop. Almost all pairs and a lot of aces, some kings, Q's J's (especially SOOTED), heck even mid suited connectors call a lot.

                                                      As played, I'm never folding obviously, so I take a line that extracts the most value without worrying about what he might or might not have.

                                                      A flat call is only benefiting the raiser and a reraise looks too strong.

                                                      Comment


                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                                        It's not that I disagree with you, or CS.
                                                        I fully understand your point, and tbh you have change my initial opinion. But on such a wet board, and shallow stacks, I'd still rather get it in earlier.
                                                        Once he c-bets, if we call we have 3/4 pot left in our stack for the turn. I like jamming this over the c-bet so he has to call 9.5k into over 22k.

                                                        Either way, I think the difference between flop CR and turn check is pretty small. The real problem area is PF
                                                        It's not like the board is 789 mono, it's KQ6 ffs!

                                                        Comment


                                                          #29
                                                          Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                                          Either way, I think the difference between flop CR and turn check is pretty small. The real problem area is PF
                                                          orly?

                                                          Originally posted by Mellor View Post
                                                          Not raising pre was poor. not CR the flop was worse.
                                                          hmmm....

                                                          Comment


                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by cardshark202 View Post
                                                            orly?



                                                            hmmm....
                                                            Lol
                                                            I already said that you changed my initial opinion on ie post flop being worse

                                                            Comment

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