What next?

[elbows]

No info just joined table

Full Tilt Poker Game #26978447197: $10,000 Guarantee (Early Antes) (209294031), Table 15 - 60/120 Ante 15 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:04:46 ET - 2011/01/04
Seat 1: elbows666 (4,670)
Seat 2: N1cky Eat World (13,228)
Seat 3: snakebowling (15,330)
Seat 4: musique (10,099)
Seat 5: RoxmorE (9,042)
Seat 6: mvdg_nijmegen (15,189)
Seat 7: Grote Jann (10,186)
Seat 8: youngchevski (2,955)
Seat 9: TRIPLEDECK2010 (4,223)
elbows666 antes 15
N1cky Eat World antes 15
snakebowling antes 15
musique antes 15
RoxmorE antes 15
mvdg_nijmegen antes 15
Grote Jann antes 15
youngchevski antes 15
TRIPLEDECK2010 antes 15
musique posts the small blind of 60
RoxmorE posts the big blind of 120
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to elbows666 [Ah Js]
mvdg_nijmegen calls 120
Grote Jann has 15 seconds left to act
Grote Jann folds
youngchevski folds
TRIPLEDECK2010 has 15 seconds left to act
TRIPLEDECK2010 folds
elbows666 has 15 seconds left to act
elbows666 raises to 390
N1cky Eat World folds
snakebowling folds
musique folds
RoxmorE folds
mvdg_nijmegen calls 270
*** FLOP *** [7d 3h Jd]
mvdg_nijmegen checks
elbows666 bets 590
mvdg_nijmegen raises to 1,180

[gorrrr72]

Call

[elbows]

Call

blank turn. 2 spades.

He bets half the pot.

Then what?

[HappyasLarry]

blank turn. 2 spades.

He bets half the pot.

Then what?

You should wait for a few more replies before saying what happens next....

He never has 2 pair, 77 is the only set he should ever have here, if he has JJ+ then I'm paying off his terrible play...!!
As played I shove, ul if he has 77....

[elbows]

You should wait for a few more replies before saying what happens next....

He never has 2 pair, 77 is the only set he should ever have here, if he has JJ+ then I'm paying off his terrible play...!!
As played I shove, ul if he has 77....

Sorry, I should have waited for a few more alright.

My thinking on the flop was he could have a j from 10's up, bottom or middle set and I thought he would reraise more with FD or pair and FD.

The size of the raise confused me a bit on the flop.

I guess looking at it now with his stack he would have raised more to push me off.

[peterswellman]

The min raise scares me a little.

[DrJFF]

raise/call flop as played shove the turn

[elbows]

raise/call flop as played shove the turn

He had 33 and I bust felt like the range at the time was too big not to get it in

[Fuzzy Logic]

Sorry but raw HH's hurt my eyes, use this to convert your hands and you will get more replies:

http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 60/120 Blinds 15 Ante (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (MP3) (t4670)
CO (t13228)
Button (t15330)
SB (t10099)
BB (t9042)
UTG (t15189)
UTG+1 (t10186)
MP1 (t2955)
MP2 (t4223)

Hero's M: 14.83

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, J
UTG calls t120, 3 folds, Hero bets t390, 4 folds, UTG calls t270

Flop: (t1095) 7, 3, J (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets t590, UTG raises to t1180

[Fuzzy Logic]

Also, please give it more time before announcing results, it will lead to ppl being results orientated.

Preflop, with no info I would raise more, make it 4x imo. It discourages LP overcalls. It is really difficult for them to have 2pair or a pair and FD, so 33/77/FD/Jx or a combo draw like 8d9d, 5d6d. I suppose sometime it is a bluff or a 7x type hand "seeing where it is". The min raise is what oozes strength as villain wants you to call so he does not seem to be afraid of your value hands. Hands like 7x and even a hand like JT/QJ may fold so you may narrow his range if you raise.

Call and see a turn and watch for timing tells...if he is going to bluff he usually has already made up his mind and will bet quicker. With value hands they will tend to take a little more time to think about how much you will call or how best to get your chips. If he checks I would bet/fold turn.

LOL at anyone saying he can never have bottom set here. I dont mean that in a 20/20 vision type of way but a lot of poor micro tourney players limp/call small pairs and SC's from early position.

[Sledgejammer]

I'd call the flop and rarely fold from that point given stack sizes. This is air a bit and weaker made hands that'll still stack off on most future streets anyway, in fact are more likely too if we give them the chance to bet and commit himself, we also wanna allow him to continue buffing. We are beat some of the time but I'm calling the flop with a view to not folding all the same as not much beats us in this board and he'll overplay marginal hands here and bluff alot

[Fuzzy Logic]

Ugh, hadnt noticed stack sizes, call flop to allow his bluffing range to continue bluffing. Cant fold this hand.

[newbie2]

The checkmin raise is what oozes strength as villain wants you to call so he does not seem to be afraid of your value hands.

This.

This is air a bit and weaker made hands that'll still stack off on most future streets anyway, in fact are more likely too if we give them the chance to bet and commit himself, we also wanna allow him to continue buffing.

Don't really agree with this tho.

This is a 10k gtd. Not the world series. In general I find these players limp/call UTG with small PP's and really strong hands. It's not air. the check minraise is really strong. Yes you can call, but you're stacking off. You're hoping, by calling the flop, that he has KJ or worse. The guy didnt get 15k by limp calling with KJ.
Maybe there is a chance he has a small PP and is chancing his arm, but if he was doing that - why would he min raise?

I understand the arguement about if your raising with AJ and you flop a J on a relatively dry board, but there's something aboput this hand that make me suspicious.

[Sledgejammer]

I don't play many tournaments, but facing fish in cash games these days I find that it's air or, nearly always, marginal made hands when they take this line like always. Ofc he can have the bottom two sets, and he can also have QQ (Very unlikely) KK (Sometimes) and AA (Though we've a blocker) too, but that is all we lose too, and that's not alot of combos and we don't expect most of them to limp call pre most of the time.

Given his limp call check/min raise line we can assume he's not very good and fish in cash games atm are doing this kind of thing on this kind of board alot with marginal made hands (Weak Jacks, of which he has alot, 88 etc), I guess it's to "find out where they're at" or something but they usually bet the turn anyway if you flat, it's also total air some of the time that'll usually fire again and not have any real idea why it's firing. Maybe in tournaments on whatever site this is it's different, but I doubt fish really think that different from place to place.

There's no such thing, or shouldn't be, of we raised with AJ and flopped a J therefore we must do anything, and that should never be a reason to do anything, and that is not why I'd suggest doing anything here. If we felt his range here was just 77 or 33, then we'd fold, obviously. All you can do is analyse the situation you're in and people may know ranges here better than I do from playing more often but there's no way I'd be doing anything other than calling the flop and looking to get it in on nearly all turns.

[newbie2]

there's no way I'd be doing anything other than calling the flop and looking to get it in on nearly all turns.

That's the cash player in you.

Tournaments do play differently to cash games. I played cash for a year about 18 months ago and I must admit there was a world of difference. TLS is a big part of my game. That's not saying I'm scared money, but it is saying that every decision I make at the table include the prospect of busting - without the ability to top up my stack.

In a cash game getting the loot in her on the turn is the optimum play - but in a MTT (IMO) maybe we can look at folding to the min-check raise....

That's all.

[elbows]

Also, please give it more time before announcing results, it will lead to ppl being results orientated.

Preflop, with no info I would raise more, make it 4x imo. It discourages LP overcalls. It is really difficult for them to have 2pair or a pair and FD, so 33/77/FD/Jx or a combo draw like 8d9d, 5d6d. I suppose sometime it is a bluff or a 7x type hand "seeing where it is". The min raise is what oozes strength as villain wants you to call so he does not seem to be afraid of your value hands. Hands like 7x and even a hand like JT/QJ may fold so you may narrow his range if you raise.

Call and see a turn and watch for timing tells...if he is going to bluff he usually has already made up his mind and will bet quicker. With value hands they will tend to take a little more time to think about how much you will call or how best to get your chips. If he checks I would bet/fold turn.

LOL at anyone saying he can never have bottom set here. I dont mean that in a 20/20 vision type of way but a lot of poor micro tourney players limp/call small pairs and SC's from early position.

Thanks I will covert in futue and leave result out for longer.

The more I think of it he has a set there more often than not because of his stack size, he wants me hanging around with min raise. He takes a chance that I have a jack or op and will stack off to him.

If he raises more I think i'm in front more often than not as it is a pretty dry board.

[Downtown]

this early I think its a mistake to be 3 betting with AJ.

As played I would call and if he checks the turn to me I would check back for pot control and reassess on the river.

Basically its too early to be getting yourself into big pots with AJ imo.

I find in general that players need to 3 bet less early and 3 bet more later on in tournaments.

[Pistol Peter]

this early I think its a mistake to be 3 betting with AJ.

As played I would call and if he checks the turn to me I would check back for pot control and reassess on the river.

Basically its too early to be getting yourself into big pots with AJ imo.

I find in general that players need to 3 bet less early and 3 bet more later on in tournaments.

He was isoing the early limper not 3betting.

[handofgod]

call flop, get it in on turn

He shows up with sets, worse Js , mid pairs,fds and air. We cant fold imo

[Kenny]

It's not air. the check minraise is really strong.

why is air not in his range? many player C/R ,click back, a c-bet as a bluff.

The guy didnt get 15k by limp calling with KJ.

i dont think we can ever assume anything about a unknown because of his stack size

Id prefer to call here, villain has no reason to suspect we have got top pair. FWIW i think his half pot bet on the turn is strong here and he may have a hand.

Basically its too early to be getting yourself into big pots with AJ imo.

+1, especially from mp